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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    US has satellite imagery, and other sigint, that Ukraine does not have.

    its a BFD.
     
  2. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    It is a BFD ... yet ... Ukraine has been hammering Russia military and economic assets without having the US intel.

    Ukraine likely has an active spy network with Russia, which may be giving them what they need.

    FWIW Trump saying he will do something is mostly cheap talk. I would hope that Ukraine would know better than to trust the POTUS of the United States. That is the very sad state of affairs for the US's current international standing.
     
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  3. basso

    basso Member
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    font is too small to read for the elder eyes
     
  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    I believe that Putin believes (or believed when he started the war) he can achieve a scenario where he fractures Europe, and the West enough to where those smaller former Soviet countries cannot rely on NATO enough to where they end up on a path to siding back with Russia as a vasal state.

    The goal was never to conquer Europe initially. It was a plan to reform the Soviet Union over time, and solidify Putin's legacy right up there with Alexander the Great.... again in Putin's mind. He wants history to remember him as the god-like king and conqueror who reformed the Soviet Union and restored glory to mother Russia.

    What Putin believes though and reality are not always aligned... BUT... if Russia would be allowed to just roll over Ukraine like you and other MAGA activists cheerlead for, that goal becomes much much more achievable than it would if Putin's attempt to take over Ukraine fails spectacularly.

    Putin's failure in Ukraine also becomes a staunch reminder for generations to come of any other dictators with illusions of grandeur... which is the point more than anything. (I'll also add Bush's failure in Iraq and Afghanistan also would bookend nice with Putin's failure in Ukraine) To have a world where for generations, dictators are reminded that invading their neighbor to seize land, wealth, and power is a foolish endeavor.

    The fact that people still have to make this point to you just speaks to the fact that you aren't really discussing this in good faith. You are here to cry on behalf of Putin and Trump, and try and gaslight everyone to think that water isn't wet.

    It is entirely obvious to anyone here that everyone here understands that Putin failing in Ukraine means PEACE.... Putin's failure does NOT mean war mongering, and endless wars. Quite the opposite.
     
  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Yes, Putins goal has always been to destabilize the EU and its allies. That is what I've always postulated. Putin gets to discard Russias outcasts and lower class while using low cost munitions while the West is forced to use extremely expensive defensive weapons. War is always about attrition of resources, logistics and man power and less about conquering territory.

    This is a stupid comment. Nobody is cheerleading for Putin to win. Its about the blatant obvious problem at hand - NATO is extremely limited on what it can do.
    Its despicable to watch millions of people to needlessly die for an inevitable outcome. And to think its justified is borderline evil. NATO was never going to put NATO troops in the battlefield, thus Ukraine will inevitably fall. Ukraine should have sided with Russia. The US has lost every proxy war and they will lose this one. But hey, I am sure you're happy millions of people are dead. Disgusting.

    Putin is not failing. There was this incredibly stupid narrative that sanctions would stop Russia. And now Trump is going with the same narrative at the moment.

    I will agree Putin lost when 1) Ukraine takes back 100% of the territory (post 2020) and 2) Russia pays restitution.

    And even if Ukraine gets back its territory, they have lost two generations of men and half the country has been destroyed. There is no winner here - except maybe the US ... and that is WAR MONGERING
     
  6. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    Remember when our Dad`s and Grandfathers knew Russia was THE enemy and the GOP knew Putin was a MURDERER, then and now and now trump sucks up to the MURDERER and people on here try to do mental gymnastics to justify trump and putin..............talk about a paper tiger, trump has no balls to go up against putin
     
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  7. Buck Turgidson

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    Good to know the NY Post puts out a "large print edition" like Readers Digest used to do for my grandmother.
     
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  8. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Trump has taken a number of tangible actions against Russia's interests.

    This idea that Trump is a puppet of Putin is entirely TDS hysterics.
     
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  9. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Remember when Putin said he wanted to restore the USSR and people took Putins word for gospel?

     
  10. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Trump was Putin's little puppet for years! He defended him left and right over mysterious poisonings, lies, and crimes upon humanity. He rolled out the red carpet for him and drooled over him with praise. He was so damn happy he probably wet himself over that signed picture Putin sent him.

    It wasn't until Putin made him look like a fool once again that he decided to do more.
     
  11. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    You mean the targeting information and intelligence that Biden had been giving Ukraine and Trump took away when he entered office? He gave it back? That's the great leap forward?

    Screenshot_20251002_190843_Chrome.jpg
     
    #19231 Ottomaton, Oct 2, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2025
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  12. basso

    basso Member
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    could be; i'm not privy to what Trump is providing UKR.
     
  13. basso

    basso Member
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    also, did Biden allow UKR to use US intel and weapons for strikes against Russia?
     
  14. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Yes. Early in the war, when they first provided the muntions they restricted their use but despite dire MAGA preditions of impending nuclear war for doing it, they remove restrictions and provide targeting intelligence. They had been providing it for more than a year when Trump shut it all down.

    The big refinery drone strikes in Summer of 2024 all required US targeting intelligence.
     
    #19234 Ottomaton, Oct 2, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2025
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  15. basso

    basso Member
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    again, did Biden allow US weapons to be used on targets in Russia?
     
  16. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Again, yes.

    Screenshot_20251002_200819_Chrome.jpg
     
    #19236 Ottomaton, Oct 2, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2025
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  17. basso

    basso Member
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    if i am reading this correctly, Biden, or his auto-pen, allowed US weapons to be used against certain Russian targets for the last 6-8 weeks of his admin.

    assuming of course that Grok or Gemini or where ever you copied this from, is not hallucinating. If so, I stand corrected.

    But Biden's state of mind when he allowed this, assuming it was he who actually made the decision, could have been a factor in the Trump admin rescinding the prior approvals.

    I'm curious why were not focused on the prior 2 years of US denials, and only on what Trump has done since.
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

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    THE STRAWS...THEY ARE TOO MANY FOR MY LITTLE HANDS!!!
     
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  19. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    :rolleyes:
     
    #19239 Ottomaton, Oct 2, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2025
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  20. glynch

    glynch Member

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    welcome to possible WW III. At the minimum the total ruin of Ukraine, and a lost for Ukraine not just Crimea and the four oblast. Also a possible world wide depression with major disruption of world wide oil markets.
     

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