Im not arguing whether pitchers throw harder now. I just can’t stand that these ****s throw like 50-60 innings a year and their ****ing arm falls off. Cry me a ****ing river.
Yes and I would add that when you have a pitcher giving 100% each pitch and they get fatigued - they are more prone to injury. We can debate whether it’s worth all the injuries looking at the Astros, Dodgers and Rays injuries to pitchers —but that the Astros exertion is higher now isn’t debatable. The only guys I can think that threw 100% every pitch were Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens. Even Randy Johnson would dip 3-4 mph on his fastball at different points in a game. The 98-99 was special for putting a guy away in a bases loaded situation or in the last batter of a playoff game.
I would argue it’s not worth it for every pitcher to approach the game that way. But for some, like Charlie F-ing Morton, somehow it made him better and more durable. I guess I shouldn’t really question the Astros when it comes to pitching approach though. They obviously know a little something.
Right - but what would Hader do if he only pitched the 9th? We don’t know because that isn’t how he was used. We will never know how much of his injury is from fatigue or over use and how much is from just bad luck. I personally felt Hader was laboring too hard when asked to go over an inning. He was usually effective, but his stuff didn’t look quite as sharp and his mechanics were sometimes starting to slip and I complained it was a mistake that would lead to ineffectiveness or worse, injury. Asking Hader to go over an inning in a playoff situation is one thing. However there is a reason Hader refused to do it in the past, it increases injury risk.
Astros clearly know pitching better than any of us - and Framber, Brown, Cole and others all have thrived - but it’s fair to also look at how many guys have missed large amounts of time.
This is more of a general commentary and not specific to Hader. But Pressly got on my nerves the same damn way. he wasn’t really being asked to go out there for two innings often at all, but I can’t remember how many ****ing times he was unavailable because he pitched the day before or the two days before and in just drove me up a wall. It’s not like the guy was throwing 100. He gets a hall pass bc of 2022 postseason though. I just have a toxic relationship with Astros closers ever since Brad Lidge ****ed up my world in 2005.
That's easy to say, but if they had lost several of those games in June-August, they are likely out of the playoffs right now - you'd have had a bunch of repeats of last night's game. And then if Hader was healthy but we had a ton of blown bullpen leads, we'd be wondering if we blew a world series opportunity not using our best reliever enough. I get why the players might not like it. But Hader complained in San Diego too - but his complaint was that he didn't want to pitch that much when he didn't have a long-term contract and wasn't competing for the playoffs. Now, he's complaining again despite those things. At the end of the day, the team is badly injured and the remaining good players have to step up. It sucks, but that's the nature of sports. If the Astros had their offense and were winning games by more, or had their normal SPs who could go more than 5 innings, it wouldn't be an issue. The Yankees game was weird though. When was the right time to pull him? He hadn't pitched in several days and only threw 8 pitches in the 9th. Then it was a save situation in the 10th - a 3 run lead, but a runner on 2nd, so it's essentially a 2 run lead. No reason to think he'd throw 32 pitches to get through that, and once he was in the middle of it, you can't pull him at that point and lose the game that way.
Sure - there is always the temptation to ride your best horse as long as possible, but that is where discipline comes into play. I also don't think that the Astros would be out of the playoffs had they not used him for multiple innings, but it is a risk. The issue comes down to fatigue, effectiveness and injury potential. What Hader says to the media (he learned from the SD situation) and what his agent and him say in private are different. Unlike SD, he did go out there and go over an inning when asked and he competed - so I won't get too upset at him. I think at the end of the day, the manager should know that these guys are one inning relievers and maybe a little more in a key playoff game. I guess my issue with Espada is that he tends to go to the well a little too often sometimes - the same happened with Abreu earliest this year. Espada is a newer manager, he may learn - and he isn't the first manager to have some issues with handling pitchers. The Astros are very fortunate that the M's have been bad recently, the Astros still have time to get into a rhythm. There is no question that managing the 2025 Astros with so many injuries is difficult. Christian Javier is not a work horse, but if he can give the Astros 6 solid innings every fifth day I think we will see the Astros play a lot better. I don't like bringing my closer into a tie game (as a visiting team especially) because then it is likely that they are being set up to pitch multiple innings. I understand why Espada in the heat of the minute went to Hader in the 10th, and had he not and we lost he would have had some fans mad. One of the things that I learned from being able to talk to some of the bullpen guys is that pitch count is part of it, but also warming up hard takes a toll and so does going out there after sitting between innings. For some guys it isn't a huge issue - Doug Jones for example, when he closed, he probably could go three innings every once in awhile because he put so little effort into his delivery, as long as he was loose - he could go. Part of the red flags I saw with Hader was that he had some fluctuations in velocity, and he was at certain points not quite as crisp on his pitches and that can be signs of fatigue. Plus there were a few times when his shoulder was dipping. When Hader was very young with the Brewers he had a season or two were he would go multiple innings more than almost anyone else but that has stopped as he got older, and that is typical for hard throwing relievers. I guess the likely outcome for the Astros will be the front office telling Espada next year to not go to Hader and Abreu for more than an inning - and the retort if I were Espada would be, then get me another quality and dependable arm I can go to consistently if you expect me to win 95 games.
The way I see it, only way the Astros can be a legit playoff threat is if: 1) Yordan actually comes back healthy and is the old Yordan; and 2) Two of Garcia, Lance, and France will need to be healthy and effective. Right now, it's the latter that is the most improbable. Walter and Hader out for the year just further thinned out everything. Arrighetti being terrible hasn't helped things. I think the Paredes injury was the one that finally broke us, Correa has been solid, but the only person that can bring Isaac's production into this offense at this point is Yordan.
If (huge IF) all of the following players are fully healthy and not slumping, the Astros are a legitimate World Series contender: SS Pena 2B Altuve DH Alvarez 3B Correa 1B Walker LF Sanchez C Diaz RF Smith SP Framber SP Brown SP Javier RP Abreu RP Okert RP Sousa RP King Losing Hader and Walter were huge blows. But with an 8 deep lineup, 3 ToR SP, and 4 reliable bullpen arms, they can win any series. They can patch together a Game 4 with some mix of Arrighetti, Garcia, McCullers, Blubaugh, Gordon, Alexander, France, and others. I think their best rotation to finish the season would be Framber, Brown, Javier, Arrighetti, and Alexander, with a bullpen of Abreu, Sousa, McCullers, King, Okert, Garcia, and a rotating group of 2 fresh arms (3 fresh arms once rosters expand). The real question will be Yordan and Javier, along with the hope of the rest of the lineup and the bullpen clicking at the right time.
They need Jake Meyers back, too - and playing like he has this season. He changes the equation because you can play hot-hand/match-ups in RF and, if Yordan is DH-only, LF. Their outfield is a mess right now. ETA: I don't mean to imply you left him out - just that I think his return is every bit as important as Yordan and Javier's. His 2025 season, pre-injury, makes him a key.
I just think between his inconsistent track record, the severity of his injury, and how late in the season it is, it’s too much to expect Meyers to come back and be what he was in 2025 before he got hurt. But absolutely Meyers coming back in peak form would be huge.
Smart pitching coaches have spent time talking about when and how much to lay back in the past. Is that idea just gone?
