Besides that excellent point, who someone voted for isn’t a morally acceptable reason to justify deliberate harm against them. Take our current and past situations. We have a POTUS doing really bad stuff ... but that still doesn’t make it morally acceptable to accept / allow deliberate harm against the people who voted for him.
Why not? Why shouldn’t a population have responsibility for and therefore suffer the consequences for voting in a person who does great damage on balance?
There hasn't been an election in Gaza in 20 years. The overwhelming number of people in Gaza never voted for Hamas. The Palestinians sympathies lie with taking back Palestine - and the Israeli's sympathies lie with eliminating the Palestinians. Yes - yes, and we are getting to see what Israel does do when they are given a chance. There is blood all over everyone involved.
There’s a big difference between holding voters accountable for the consequences of their votes and morally accepting harm being done to them because of how they voted. The first is fair.. voters are responsible for the suffering their choices enable. The second is not... we shouldn’t justify or accept harm being done to people because of how they voted.
That's what happens when you vote in Hamas... that's the voters fault.. This isn't responsive to what I said. Israel is fighting a war. Wars are messy. I don't have reason to believe Israel is conducting itself in a way worse than other modern conflicts I am familiar with.
Congrats on the Fell for it again award. Even bill ackman's stupid ass walked back comments he made claiming it was staged. Keep denying reality.
So sins of the father logic applies to the majority of Gazans who weren't alive to vote 20 years ago?
Where was this energy for the young Germans who died in WW2 because people voted in the Nazis 12 years previous?
I wasn't alive then so I can't tell you. But 12 is half of 25. I said this in another thread, but it's possible to feel multiple things about this war: Israel is justified in responding to October 7 The nation state of Israel isn't going anywhere and zero-sum Palestinian "negotiation" that begins with "from the river to the sea" is a non-starter. Israel's government is currently led by religious zealots who have no desire to compromise on the war or a two-state solution because they believe it is their divine mandate to control ever square inch of territory according to their ancient texts. The poor, innocent people of Gaza who were not alive to vote in 2006 are caught in the cross-hairs between their terrorist government who cynically uses their suffering as a bargaining chip and an Israeli government that would probably prefer to see them all die because God wills it. Hamas' zealotry is to blame, too, and that's why this area will never, ever cool down. Israel's killing of civilians is going to create a new generation of people who despise them (unless Israel kills them all first).
25? 2006 was 19 years ago. 12 vs. 19 is the difference. No need to exaggerate and lie. Then read a book. Hundreds of thousands of German civilians [if not 1 million+] died in WW2 by way of American and British bombs. Germans hadn't voted in a free election since 1932. Was there an international campaign decrying this? What about the innocent Germans who hadn't gotten a vote since 1932? Give me a break. Or was the energy more along the lines of "They are Nazis **** em"? Plenty of people in Gaza were alive to vote in 2006. You seem to have completely forgotten them. Or is there no one in Gaza 37 or older? As to your other opinions/belief concerning the conflict - Ok?
What does it mean to hold a people accountable but refrain from punitive actions that inflicts some pain on them?
That was a typo on my part, sorry for offending. You didn't have to accuse me of lying right off the bat. Others like Nook have pointed out that nearly 75% of the people in Gaza were not alive in 2006 or were not old enough to vote. The tragedy is that they've been living under a terrorist group who put them in this position and an Israeli government going scorched earth. I'm sure the line was more like "They're Nazis, **** em" but it was also easier to avoid images of starving and dead kids back then.
@HTM The Iraq war was immoral, stupid and cost 1 million lives. What revenge do the Iraqi people get to exact on you since “you voted for bush”? I imagine you’re not going to site down fold your arms and accept vengeance in the form of your family members getting killed in front of you Shut the **** up with the bullshit, you want to support a genocide and this stupid talking point is just an excuse. This thread is full of vile people
The tragedy is they overwhelmingly support a terrorist group. In the June 12 poll, 40% of Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza said they would prefer Hamas to govern them, followed by Fatah (20%), the Palestinian National Liberation Movement in control of the West Bank and led by Mahmoud Abbas. Eight percent chose others. Support for Hamas over the preceding three months increased by 6%. Shikaki explains this significant support for Hamas despite the suffering caused by the war: “The support for Hamas comes from various sources, but the most important one is because Palestinians share Hamas' values. They will support Hamas for that, even if Hamas makes wrong moves here or there." https://www.npr.org/2024/07/26/g-s1-12949/khalil-shikaki-palestinian-polling-israel-gaza-hamas We know where the sentiments of the Palestinian people lie. A 20% percentage point lead over second place is outrageously large. "Palestinians share Hamas' values" - what are Hamas' values? Kill every Jew in the middle east? Wipe Israel off the map? Sharia law in its legal system? How do they feel about apostasy? How do they feel about equality between the sexes? How do they feel about sexual minorities? Religious minorities? Political opponents? Freedom of association, press and speech?
If you keep reading, he explains what those “values” are. Also, from the interview: The second lie that some people spread is that the Palestinian support for October 7th is a support for massacre and atrocities that were committed in October. Our findings show the exact opposite. Those who think atrocities were committed on October the 7th do not support October the 7th and do not support Hamas. And so the idea that the majority or vast majority supports Hamas or that it's the vast majority that supports atrocities committed by Hamas are two fabrications, lies. Our findings definitely show that in fact, it's the exact opposite of these two statements. Perhaps don’t selectively read to suit the narrative you’ve already decided on and instead read for understanding what he’s actually saying.
I did not vote for George W. Bush. I don't support genocide nor do I consider the events in Gaza a genocide.
Yes. And your inference that this means an “overwhelming” number of Palestinians support massacring all Jews is not a fact presented or a position even remotely supported by the facts presented.
Good thing I didn't say that. Supporting Hamas comes with plenty of other baggage. Which I outlined in my previous post. Anyway the purpose of the post was to show the popular support Hamas still has when people point out there hasn't been an election in Gaza since 2006 and therefore we cannot know the political views of Gazans in 2025. That's wrong, we have polling which shows their sentiments. And their sentiments are with Hamas far more than any other political entity. A despicable proscribed terrorist organization guilty of horrific barbarities and generally awful outside of that on human rights and any number of issues.
What percentage of Israeli Settlers want every Palestinian dead? We'll never find out but I guarantee the number is a lot higher than many of you would be willing to admit or be comfortable with. The fact that your enemy has a hateful ideology and think someone on the other side of a conflict should be wiped out (but not acting on it) is no more justification for mass murdering Palestinians than it is for mass murdering Israelis. Hating the other side is kind of the natural result of 80 years of murdering each other.
