President Trump Orders a New Census

The US Constitution, Article 1, Section 2, says “whole number of persons” in each state. It doesn’t say “citizens”, a concept not even formally defined back then. You’re just making that up.

As for “basic logic” — tell me, do only citizens pay taxes? If not, then explain your logic.

 

Ship out the law breakers and then do a new census. Our tax dollars shouldn't be be spent on the basis of how many illegals are in a state, nor should they get seats in Congress because of illegals population in certain states
. Time to re word this law. Do you honestly think the taxes they pay equals up to the financial drain they put on the healthcare, education systems etc ... In this country?

 

So you agree or disagree that the census should be limited to citizens? That’s the only part I commented on.

Also, if you look at the districts with the highest number of undocumented residents, is it your contention that they pay proportionately less taxes relative to their census counts? Do you have data to back that up?

 

Here's the section:

Not disagreeing with you. But, I wanted to point out how the exclusions in the original language also highlight how inclusive this language is. "Persons" is already the widest net they can throw. Elsewhere in the Constitution they refer to citizens or inhabitants, but here they say Person, which is pretty universal. It also differentiates between 'Free Persons' and 'Other Persons' which shows you that while there was a difference between slaves and free people, they still call the slaves Persons, making it a very expansive term for the time. They also exclude Indians not taxed in recognition that at the time there were still Native American nations that were not subject to US jurisdiction. So those Persons specifically were pointedly excluded, with taxation included as an indicator of upon whom this rule would apply. But, they did not exclude foreigners of non-Indian identity, of which there were still plenty in the new states. And those other foreigners would still have been subject to tax. Fast forward to today, we have illegal aliens who are Persons (and Free Persons at that), who are not members of a sovereign Native American tribe, and who are subject to tax. There is no wiggle room to say they aren't supposed to be counted.

 

They should be counted, but excluded from any calculation of congressional representation, budget allocations, etc. It is important to know how many people are in the United States and to ascertain economic impacts both positive and negative, but should not be used for political purposes. Anybody saying that illegal aliens are contributing an equal amount of taxes as they are taking out of the system is being disingenuous at best. Legal immigration is a net positive to our country. By any measure, illegal immigration is a negative.

 

I think this is at least fair

 

I’m 100% for equal representation for every US citizen in both the house and senate. It makes all the sense in the world.

Dismantle the senate as we know it and replace with a population weighted system.

Wyoming, Vermont, Alaska and North Dakota should not have the same power over bills/amendments/appointments as California, Texas, Florida and New York.

End less than 3 million people having equal voting power to that of 114 million.


Then we can start to talk about eliminating uneven state representation as much as possible through efforts to combat political gerrymandering.

 

Grok 3 Prompt:

What is more correct: Illegal immigrants on average take more from the system (in terms of government programs and public funding) than they put in (via taxation) or they take less?

Response:
…

Synthesis and Answer

The evidence suggests a mixed picture, but on average, undocumented immigrants likely take less from government programs than they contribute in taxes, particularly at the federal level. Their significant tax contributions ($96.7 billion in 2022) and limited eligibility for federal benefits (except emergency services and child nutrition) mean they are often net contributors to programs like Social Security and Medicare. However, at the state and local levels, costs—primarily for education—can exceed tax revenues in some jurisdictions, leading to a net fiscal burden in those contexts.

The claim that undocumented immigrants cost more than they contribute often hinges on including education costs for U.S.-born children and assuming lower tax compliance, as in the FAIR study ($150.7 billion net cost). In contrast, studies like those from ITEP and the American Immigration Council emphasize higher tax contributions and limited benefit use, suggesting a net positive or neutral impact. The truth likely lies between these poles: the net fiscal impact depends on the level of government (federal vs. state/local) and how costs like education are attributed.

Given the data, it is more correct to say that undocumented immigrants, on average, take less from government programs than they contribute in taxes, especially federally, though state and local impacts vary. Legalization could amplify their positive fiscal contributions.

If you’d like me to dig deeper into a specific aspect (e.g., a particular state, program, or economic impact), let me know!

 

https://pjmedia.com/matt-margolis/2...020s-rigged-count-favoring-democrats-n4942481

The 2020 Census, overseen by the Biden administration and its Deep State allies, was an unmitigated disaster — and the fallout is still being felt. Even the Census Bureau itself — hardly a bastion of conservative thought — admitted that its 2020 Census was incorrect in at least 14 states.

According to the Bureau’s own Post-Enumeration Survey (PES), eight states were overcounted while six were undercounted. But here’s where it gets truly absurd: The Census Bureau claims it can’t identify which groups were miscounted or where the errors occurred, citing “sample sizes within most states do not support such estimates.” Translation? They know it was wrong, but they can’t — or won’t — say how or where.

This isn’t just bureaucratic bungling; it’s a dereliction of duty. And it’s exactly why President Trump is right to call for a new, citizen-focused census. If the federal government can’t even tell us who they miscounted or where, how can anyone trust the results?

These weren’t random clerical errors, either. They were systemic failures that just so happened to benefit Democrats. Florida was robbed of not one, but two congressional seats. Texas lost out on another. Meanwhile, blue states like Minnesota and Rhode Island held onto seats they should have lost — and Colorado was gifted a seat it was never entitled to. The fix was in.

“The harms flowing from these mistakes impact more than just congressional representation, which also affects the number of electors from those states since they are calculated by the number of Senators and Representatives in each state,” explains the Heritage Foundation. “Because the Treasury and other federal departments will continue to use the original, official Census numbers (and not the new numbers contained in the PES), these errors will affect $1.5 trillion in funding received by states in federal appropriations during the next decade in disbursements that are distributed based on the population of each state.

 

Funny
The "Founding Fathers" literally wanted the "non-citizens" counted for those purposes.
So much so they compromised by agreeing that they would only count as 3/5ths of a person

Rocket River

 

A POTUS cannot unilaterally ignore the Constitution.

Carry on.

 

Why bother with a mock census? He's going to manufacture the results he wants regardless.

Word on the street is many many idiots will swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

 

Yes and no I don't have the data to back this up. It's why I asked this as a question. What is unquestionable is they've broken the law and should be shipped back and let back in as we the legal citizens see fit

 

LOL … go back to grade school.

 

LMAO, cleaning up the illegal stuff the Dems have been doing for years.