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Israel’s Rafah camp – ‘humanitarian city’ or crime against humanity?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by deb4rockets, Jul 9, 2025 at 8:06 AM.

  1. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Israel’s Rafah camp – ‘humanitarian city’ or crime against humanity?

    Israel’s Defence Minister Israel Katz has announced a controversial plan to move up to 600,000 Palestinians in Gaza into a designated “humanitarian area” on the ruins of the southern city of Rafah.

    Access to the camp would be through strict security screening to ensure entrants were not Hamas operatives. Once inside, the perimeter would be sealed off by the Israeli military. Palestinians would not be allowed to leave.

    Eventually the camp would house the entire 2.1 million population of Gaza.

    Camp construction would begin during the proposed 60-day ceasefire being negotiated by Israel and Hamas.

    Voluntary exodus?
    According to Katz, Gazans would have the option of “voluntary” emigration.

    Indeed, speaking at the White House this week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said there would be no forced exodus from Gaza:

    If people want to stay, they can stay, but if they want to leave, they should be able to leave.

    But the scale of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is incomprehensible.

    The population has been displaced multiple times and 90% of homes in Gaza are damaged or destroyed. The healthcare, water, sanitation and hygiene systems have collapsed.

    On average 100 Palestinians are killed daily as they try to access food.

    These crisis circumstances negate the voluntary nature of any person’s consent to either the transfer to the Rafah camp or ultimately, the departure from Gaza.

    According to Amos Goldberg, historian of the Holocaust at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, what the defence minister laid out was clear plans for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza:

    [it is] a transit camp for Palestinians before they expel them. It is neither humanitarian nor a city.

    https://share.google/F2xsTxwA9wpn8lnMB
     
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  2. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    If you don't believe Netanyahu hasn't and still isn't committing crimes against humanity or forced genocide, than I have to wonder what you consider humane. I have nothing against Jews, and agree that Hamas needs to be wiped off the earth. But, what's been happening goes well beyond killing Hamas soldiers. As Trump and Netanyahu wine and dine, praising each other and making development plans for the Gaza strip, it makes me sick to my stomach.

    Areas that had been designated as safe humanitarian zones have been attacked. Civilians have been attacked in and around hospitals, while seeking food at distribution centers, and at schools sheltering displaced families. Entire families have been wiped out. People are starving and babies are dying.

    At least 94% of all hospitals in the Gaza Strip are damaged or destroyed. Over 95% of schools in Gaza had sustained some degree of damage, with 88.5% requiring full reconstruction or major rehabilitation. All 12 of Gaza's universities and colleges have been destroyed.

    ‘They’re skin and bones’: doctors in Gaza warn babies at risk of death from lack of formula

    Doctors say Israel is blocking deliveries of formula urgently needed as mothers are either dead or too malnourished to feed their babies
    Sat 5 Jul 2025 03.11 EDT

    The UN warns that nearly half a million people face famine within months, whilst newborn babies are reportedly starving to death due to Israel’s ban on baby formula entering Gaza.

    In late June, the director-general of the World Health Organization, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said about 112 children were being admitted daily to Gaza’s hospitals for malnutrition treatment. Malnutrition before the age of three can cause permanent developmental problems.

    Mothers who are severely malnourished themselves or have been killed are unable to breastfeed, creating a higher need for formula. On the parallel market, what little supply exists has become exorbitantly expensive, with one can of formula going for about $50 – 10 times the normal price.

    “This whole generation is being targeted. They will suffer from memory problems, developmental delays … And the problem is even if nutrition becomes available later on, the damage is permanent,” al-Faraa said.

    https://share.google/raYEFl8qcHn6mgEH0

    In a May report UN Women’s analysis estimated that more than 28,000 women and girls have been killed in Gaza since the onset of hostilities in October 2023. The report said that since the ceasefire collapsed in March 2025, conditions have deteriorated further in Gaza, compounded by nearly nine weeks of an ongoing blockade on humanitarian aid. The entire population in Gaza is rapidly running out of food and essential supplies with increasing risks of famine. This means every woman and girl, (more than 1 million) is facing catastrophic levels of hunger.
     
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  3. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    No Alligators for their Alcatraz?

    *should* not *would*
    interesting choice of words

    Rocket River
     
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  4. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Actions speak louder than words. Their actions are inhumane, regardless of what words they use to justify them. Hey, now that we've destroyed most of your schools, all your colleges, and most of your hospitals, you can choose move to a sealed off camp area to keep you and your babies from starving to death.
     
    #4 deb4rockets, Jul 9, 2025 at 8:53 AM
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2025 at 9:02 AM
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  5. lionaire

    lionaire Member

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    Hmm a large concentration of people being placed into camps where have we seen this before?

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Terrible what's happening there. But the warning about famine makes me flinch a bit because they have been warning of famine for a long time, and not getting reliable news past the Israeli blockade about actual famine deaths (and all deaths) might start making some people skeptical and cynical about the warnings of famine. So, I tried to dig a little specifically on that question.

    There are 2.1 million people in Gaza.

    The IDF estimates that 20,000 combatants have been killed in Gaza. So, those are just direct military killings, not indirect deaths.

    The Gaza Health Ministry says 57,000 deaths which they have cataloged with names. These would be direct and indirect deaths, combatant and non-combatant. They officially count a mere 32 starvation deaths. But, because it is a Hamas-run organization, they have an interest in maximizing the count for propaganda leading some to discount it or conclude that we cannot know.

    A recent paper lead authored by Michael Spagat used surveys conducted inside of Gaza to make an estimate of 75,200 violent deaths and 8,540 nonviolent excess deaths (so they controlled for people who would have died anyway of pre-existing ailments). It is important because the survey technique does not rely on Hamas for data but instead a team of surveyors who interviewed 2,000 households about the deaths in their families and then statistically extrapolated from there. Not peer reviewed, but the approach seems to be well-regarded. A couple implications here: (1) their estimate of violent deaths suggests that Hamas is being conservative in their estimate; (2) much lower number of nonviolent deaths shows there may be a problem with disease and famine but it still isn't yet at the epic levels I'm told to expect.

    The Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC) which is implemented by the UN and some big humanitarian organizations rate Northern Gaza as Phase 5 (famine) since March 2024, which is the worst rating, and the rest of Gaza as Phase 4 (Emergency) since December 2023. The criteria for Phase 5 (Phase 4 in parentheses) is that 20% of the population face extreme lack of food, Global Acute Malnutrition exceeds 30% (Phase 4 15%), and a Crude Death Rate exceeds 2 (Phase 4 1) per 10,000 people per day. So that's 1.1 million people in famine and 1 million in emergency.

    Logically, a community cannot remain in Phase 5 for long without mass deaths. Like maybe a month. But Northern Gaza has been at it over a year. That can breed some skepticism. But they have had some ceasefires and humanitarian corridors to allow in some aid which doesn't seem to have triggered any temporary official reclassification to Phase 4. And the Spagat survey I mentioned earlier wasn't able to enter northern Gaza and relied on interviews from shelters of the displaced and tried to accommodate with statistical adjustments, so they might have mis-estimated deaths in the most famine-ravished area.

    We are getting some anecdotal photos of emaciated people. But, I don't know if we're going to see a mass starve off that the UN warns about. The IDF might do just enough to keep Gazans starving but alive. The Warsaw Ghetto persisted for 2.5 years and 92,000 people died there (plus another 300k shipped to death camps). The Gaza Ghetto is coming up on 2 years with almost as many deaths counted.
     
  7. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Yeah, it's really hard to know how many have died, or will die. That independent study you mentioned was done in Dec and January, and thousands more have died since then. I wouldn't doubt the numbers are far higher than that report now. Even since May 27 of this year hundreds of Palestinian civilians have been killed and thousands more wounded around aid sites. The horrible part is that all the malnourished children under the age of 3 are at risk of permanent development problems, even if they survive. The psychological effects of suffering and loss will affect everyone for years. It's all so tragic that thousands of innocent people are being killed in a war against Hamas terrorists and taking control of the strip of land that Palestinian civilians live in.
     
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  8. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    So
    Do you think these warnings are similar to Iran being 2 months away from a Nuke warnings?

    Rocket River
     
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  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I think the effect of making people cynical is the same. We've also seen that with climate change claims that such-and-such will be underwater by 2020 or whatever. When you're doomsaying, you run a risk of ruining your credibility, especially when you're effective at curbing the worst outcomes by predicting them. Whether Gaza starves to death is unfortunately a political football and this is a tussle of propaganda instead of data. And if the IDF can keep Gazans at least barely alive, public sentiment in the US will turn further against the international aid organizations.
     
  10. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Crime against humanity. Where are all the defenders of Zionism disputing this?
     

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