Why is Trump covering up the Epistein files and lying to the public?

that may be, but the thesis of the essay is about trade-offs. "Preventing more people from dying" is not an absolute, i.e., it is not the only and/or the most important function of government. Your point, however, is well-taken, but I'm not sure it necessarily contradicts what Jenkins is arguing

 

I wasn't claiming (or aiming) to contradict with my comment.

I just think it's a failure to paint the perspective of trade offs without acknowledging the US has a rather objective excess mortality problem. Instead he chooses to invoke "People will also die if enticed to rely on programs that politicians know aren’t sustainable", "“People will die” is a safe bet too if opportunity vanishes from the economy due" and "“Well, we all are going to die,”" without acknowledging any tangible goal of saving lives. Almost as is if the "trade off" is for nothing.

Like I said, I think it's more of a fair/valid perspective if we were perhaps amongst world leaders in life expectancy / age adjusted mortality rates. Because what would be the point of reference for the trade off in that scenario? An unknown for the most part. Instead our point of reference is our peers, most of which are considerably poorer economies - are doing significantly better jobs at preventing death.

 

isn't a considerable part of the mortality issue in the U.S. due to drug overdose cases and suicide? if adjusted for those cases I wonder how the comparison would go. And I'm unclear about how policies in those countries accomplish the "preventing {of} death." As always I suspect there may be cultural factors at work rather than exclusively health-policy causal factors. But this is also not my any kind of area of expertise for me, so you may be entirely correct in your assessment

 

I can't put Trump in the same group as Stalin, Mussolini and others like that. If he cancels elections, has Biden grabbed and put in prison - then I will make that leap. At this point he is flirting with it.

 

Yup.

I have had a number of genuine conversations with those that grew up and lived in the Soviet Union. None of them paint it as a perfect Utopia, but many of them say that it is better then than now - and that they had inferior "things" compared to the West, but they got vacations, they had homes and food and recreation... and that Stalin and his cronies didn't have many dealings with ordinary citizens.

So there is some serious nostalgia, and I guess it makes sense -

 

There are many factors that go into this - some of it is diet, some of it is income inequality and lack of universal preventative healthcare, some of it is the prevalence of guns in homicides and also suicides, some of it is cars, some of it is a culture that has become very sedentary. Some of it is financial stress.

As for Spain, no real desire to live there. Seems idyllic at first until you really dig into it. Portugal is the same way. If I were to live in that part of the world, it would be the UK or possibly Paris if I were very wealthy.

 

Drug overdose rate is a considerable aspect, suicide rate is definitely on the higher end compared to most of our peers but not a complete anomaly like our OD rate. We also have double to triple to infant mortality rate, double the youth mortality rate (the earlier you lose someone the greater the effect), and of course amongst the highest obesity rates.

I don't think any of those areas make sense to "adjust" for, given the nature of the topic, those are the core problems. Smoking as well was a social/cultural issue, but that didn't exempt it from government action.

 

Part of me thinks that trump and company used the Epstein files as a political trigger to the base to rile them up and then when they actually dug in there was nothing there and they are now exposed to the original lie....................................LOL, or he is on it like elmo said and now it's the cover up, I cant believe one word from this administration, but knowing what we do know he likes to grab em by the *****, and likes em young so I will go with the latter explanation

Even if a "list" comes out, I am not sure I would trust it and I am sure Bill Gates is on it, the one thing about trump is, he would use this to his advantage if he could, and if he can't then my gut tells me he is on there and it doesn't look good for him

I asked my maga mom about this and she is more upset about this then trump being convicted of the Jean Carrol case (made up per my mom LOL)

 

I think Nook just addressed many significant cultural factors more explicitly than I did, many of which lay outside the strict boundaries of what we would term "health care policy."

To take one just one multi-faceted health problem, look at obesity. Some of obesity can be traced to genetics, part of it is affected by the increasingly sedentary lifestyles Americans live, but a huge portion of it can be traced back (causally) to American agricultural policies that favor the production of high fructose corn syrup being added to just about everything Americans like to eat in terms of junk food. All of that happens before you can even start talking about healthcare policy. I'm not sure many of the "comparable" nations you mention have these kinds of cultural influences at play, at least not to the degree as occurs in the U.S.

 

Every other civilized country has healthcare, we are the only ones bankrupting folks with medical costs.

DD

 

wait . . . the United States doesn't have healthcare? I'm not sure I understand your point

 

I'd agree that it is various factors, some easier/more feasible to address at a governmental level than others, but I'd as well argue none are wholly unaffected by governance.

Where someone desires to live is extremely subjective. I talk with father who swears the best life is somewhere tropical and cheap like the Philippines, I differ a great bit.

Objectively Spain has a tremendous life expectancy, it's especially impressive if you cross compare it with something like GDP. How much that (or other wellbeing statistics) effects ones desire is going to vary, but it is a pretty good testament to quality of life IMO. I'm a citizen and have studied the country a fair bit, If I were to live there, I like how Pamplona is situated (Navarra is for example the lowest unemployment rate province in Spain).

I never argued that it's just healthcare policy, it's certainly more than that. Australia and Canada are fairly similar to the US in a number of aspects and manage to do considerably better.

 

remember what started this whole conversation . . . I was just responding to this insane generalization from DD

 

It is no longer an academic issue, it is a fundamental issue, people first, or money first, that is Dems vs GOP.

The GOP is now the American Facist party.

DD

 

Yeah I'd say I remember lol

Did you read those quoted pieces I posted for you in the lib vs con thread? I really found it pretty interesting and put in a small effort to curate and quote those studies/articles for you.

 

I did see them and looked them over, to be honest though I didn't study them in close detail

 

That was in response to your post on libs being in a mental crisis, but it does relate and touch a bit on DD's claim. If you look at the data on politics and mortality, you might not find the claim (that Republican policies leads to more death) to be unfounded or an insane generalization.

 

pretty sure I could read everything you sent and I'd still find DD's generalization to be insane