Let’s pretend the Guardians continue to forget how to score what would you give up for Jose Ramirez making the assumption it’s a trade Cle would agree too?
Ramirez has more surplus value than Yordan had before he was hurt; Ramirez is a superstar with 4 years of cheap control remaining. The Astros simply do not have the kind of young controllable talent to compete on the trade market for a guy with that much surplus value unless they were willing to start with Cam Smith. Honestly there’s not much precedent for a team trading a player like Ramirez. The return would be immense.
Agreed. Ramirez's contract makes him among the most valuable players in MLB. Based on the nature of the trade deadline and the fact that he is, basically, Cleveland's Jose Altuve it would take an overpay in addition to his actual value. I know they aren't always great and many people don't agree with their values (but they have improved since changing to a pay model), but look at baseballtradevalues surplus values for him and Astro players They have Ramirez at $56M surplus, which I find low. They have Cam Smith and Jeremy Pena each at $30M So in order to trade for Ramirez, the Astos would need to trade Cam and Jeremy and throw in prospects to meet Cleveland's price.
Would Ramirez want out? He has a no trade clause. Didn’t Ramirez take a massive payout to stay in Cleveland. I think he stayed because just him living there for years he wanted to finish his career in Cleveland. Not because he felt they would be contenders. I also saw Kwan's name out in trade talks or at least teams called on him. I would assume if they're going to trade someone it would be him. And in the article I saw they suggested maybe they would trade Kwan for a power hitter. If they want another power hitter, can't see Ramirez getting traded.
I think I might do Yordan for Kwan. It would change the nature of the lineup (not in a good way) but he plays a defensive position and does it very well, and he plays every day. dont get me wrong- Cleveland would also have to kick in a really good prospect (Matthews level) or two prospects that would slot between 6-10 in our organization.
Cleveland is so cheap, and that division is generally shitty enough, that I wonder if they would go for something like: Matthews, Melton, Ullola, blubaugh, Walter, Janek? if I were Cleveland and I had Ramirez I’d do that deal (I’d probably do a different one from a different team) but I’d be looking for something where I could fill 5 or 6 or 7 roster spots at a competent level for 6 or 7 years each/ so that I don’t have a stars and scrubs model but rather everyone is average model to try to develop a couple stars around later. I’d trade Kwan for the best single prospect I could get. I’d trade the closer for the best single prospect I could get.
I'm not trading Yordan away for anything other than a superstar-caliber bat. Kwan isn't it. And I'm not impressed with a guy who just plays LF, when we've got the smallest LF in the majors. Our hopes of winning a title this year and next are much better with a healthy Yordan than with Kwan and a prospect.
I love Kwan and am not rational about him. I swear he’s impossible to get out. Him and Paredes at the top of the lineup might have starters at 30 pitches before they get to the 3rd man in the lineup. He’s also cheaper so you’d have to feel like you could reuse that extra 12M to get something else interesting at the deadline. In essence: Yordan for Kwan, best prospect in the system, 10M addition at the deadline. its a wager against Yordans health. If he wasn’t made of glass I wouldn’t even consider it.
Doesn't Ramirez have a full no trade clause...? And he refused a trade for family reasons? This is a silly scenario to discuss...
That's crazy, I would have to think long and hard about trading Pena straight up for Ramirez. A GG SS that's a .280-.300 hitter is worth more than a power hitting 3B IMHO and I'm not saying Ramirez isn't a superstar. Bottom line is Pena is about to get paid. I've always agreed with Crane's philosophy of to dollar for short term 5 year deals. However I would sign Pena to a longer term deal.I would also look at keeping Framber. If not Framber I hope Crane signs a guy like Zac Gallen in FA.
Hard pass. But I love the randomly arbitrary made up surplus stats. Keep them coming. I know they aren’t completely random etc etc but there’s zero percent chance that even Jeff Luhnow could convince me that Ramirez will do more to impact winning than literally 2 really good/solid players, even if Smith and Pena cool off.
Glass and all even mentioning Yordan and Kwan in the same sentence is sacrilegious. I like Kwan but this is just unbelievable.
If you have to think long and hard about trading Pena for Jose Ramirez, you might need your head examined. He’s not just a power hitting 3B either - he does it all. Stole 41 bases last season.
Our hopes of winning a title over the next 5 years are astronomically better with Yordan averaging 85 games a year and playing each postseason. Who the **** seriously wants to trade Yordan. This isn’t MLB the show. Such a disgusting suggestion. I’m genuinely bothered. Need to take mushrooms and recalibrate.
Well, if you are a good org, you are at least considering that, as he is always injured, I mean he broke his hand swinging a bat, and hurt his knee sliding into 2nd....the guy is made of glass......not sure he will ever be healthy, TBH.... Although when he is.....he is protection for EVERYONE in that lineup. DD
Any news on our Injury brigade? Pena was listed as maybe this series, any word? How about Spencer, that injury was more than 2 months ago....probably healed, right? Javiar, Garcia - it is going to look like a totally different team when they get back.... And Chas, started his rehab Friday, let me see if I can find how he did. 0-4 playing CF on Friday, Saturday game suspended against RR... DD
