I dun think he is universally hated though as that poster suggested. There are still 20% defending him......it is what it is as the highest paid Veteran to absorb criticism.....just have to get used to it.
I can see there are generally 4 kinds of people who "hate" FVV and want him off the team ASAP. 1. Those who wanted Harden and are still bitter we got FVV instead. 2. Those who are pissed off by how much he is overpaid. 3. Those who are pissed off by his bad shooting this season. 4. Those who are pissed off by Udoka's overreliance on FVV and not giving more chances to guys like Amen and Reed at the PG spot. None of these reasons are totally rational, although some have more merit than others. 1. Signing FVV over Harden (assuming he was asking for a full max) is at least a reasonable move. 2. His contract was carefully structured to (1) meet the team salary requirement after failing to sign Brooks, and (2) keep flexibility after two years. This has been talked about numerous times. Some people still raise the $40M price tag whenever Fred is not playing well. 3. FVV is a wildly streaky shooter all his career. He did pretty well his first season here and people expected him to be a deadeye shooter. He is a slightly above average shooter overall but he's had bad seasons before. There's no reason to assume that he will be this bad next season, although there is also no reason to assume that he will be good either. This is just what you get from an inconsistent shooter. If he shoots at his career average, people won't complain so much about him. Do I like his inconsistency? NO! Same reason I don't like Jalen's wild shooting pattern. You just can't depend on this kind of players. 4. I don't like Ime relying so much on FVV. I have been criticizing his coaching on offense. But I also understand to some extent that he was trying to win and both Amen and Reed were clearly not ready. If he played those guys more at the PG spot, we probably would not have won as many games. I think in a way, the surprising great start of the season was a curse in disguise if you want to see more of the kids and less of Fred. The winning kind of cemented the importance of FVV in Ime's mind and he never let go.
KD is only worth it for a cheap trade price, if he was still prime PHX would’ve won 50+ games. Giannis is worth sending Sengun for. Jaylen Brown is next-most valuable, but not worth Alpy. Amen & Brooks are untouchable.
He is a midget, usually midgets are fast .....even guys like Earl Boykins were not slow but he manages to be slower than slow. Goes against my slogan of uptempo style and the style that the Thunder are practicing, deflections and off to the races. He is playing 90-00s basketball and not modern style. Also a pretty emotional leader who goes for the refs and is easily emotionally taken advantage of.
KD is a great fit but will be 37 at the start of next season and is an expiring contract. The trade price needs to make sense (very low) because he doesn't put us over the top IMO, so this move carries huge risk. If we trade rotation pieces and/or picks for him and he either rapidly declines or leaves in free agency that's pretty much it for our competitive window. Don't believe me? Think about how well positioned the Suns were when they traded for KD. They got him for rotation pieces and picks. They were a year removed from a finals appearance and Booker was a 25 year old all-star. The future was supposed to be bright. They were a better team than us and traded for a better version of KD. Two years later they aren't even a play in team and they look like they have no future outside of a complete rebuild. Phoenix fans rue their win now moves despite cheering for them at the time. We should learn from the mistakes of others, not repeat them.
In my defense I wasn't totally on board when Fred signed here, he proved me wrong in his 1st year sure.....but I saw the same things that got him fall from the good graces in Toronto and here as well, .... chucking.....inefficiency around the hoop.....ref problem....additionally he clashed with Nurse in Toronto and not here. Sure, he was one of the better undrafted players of All time, I give him that, and very hard working but I just disliked his shortcomings.
the Suns gave up Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, 4 1st round picks, and a pick swap for KD 2 years ago…KD’s price now is nowhere near that high the Suns then sealed their fate by trading for a maxed out Bradley Beal on a NTC giving up 4 more pick swaps and 6 2nd round picks these are 2 completely different situations unless Stone loses his mind and starts making lobotomy moves trading for KD would have little effect on our competitive window…he won’t cost that much, nor will he be around for too long
All those assets? I’m talking one pick this year’s #10 and pg nobody should want on this team and a non-starter. Giannis is a totally different discussion than Durant, but I’m also of the opinion that Giannis should only be the target if it is Jalen or Sengun and a couple of good picks. What I am not in favor is running it back and our only addition of a #10 pick that won’t see the floor for at least one year and maybe 2.
What is the max price you would pay for KD? You have a poster on the prior page throwing out FVV/Tari/2025 #10 pick/2027 PHX pick for KD which IMO is an overpay and would definitely have an effect on our competitive window. Depending on how much KD wants on his next contract and who we traded for him, simply re-signing him would be a tough financial decision because other players are up for extensions and we will be hitting the 1st and/or 2nd apron unless they are traded away. He might justifiably ask for $40M+/year for two years. If we let him walk then he ended up being a one-year rental.
If I could interject - It is not that it is "only" X amount of assets. It is what is the point if you are not winning a championship? Those assets could be used in another trade. There are an infinite number of potential trades. It is not only the ones being reported about. Reported trades seem to rarely even happen. A #10 pick is a solid asset, IMO.
Jalen, Cam, and the 10th pick give up on the Jalen experiment and upgrade his scoring and shooting ability with KD’s…get rid of bench gunner Cam who isn’t even in the regular rotation, and the 10th pick which would be a non-contributor next season FVV/Reed Amen/Brooks KD/ Bari/Tari Sengun/Adams I would be fine with giving KD a 1+1 deal…Jalen would be on our books for 35 mil/yr the next 3 seasons, so going from that to paying KD is ok with me…FVV would have to be brought back at a significantly lower amount than the 40 mil/yr he’s been making…Dillon Brooks is a tradable contract u can dump in the future Jabari isn’t getting paid more than Sengun annually, nor would Tari be commanding crazy money…the only player who will be commanding a large sum of money on their next contract is Amen Thompson, and the Rockets can hold off on offering him a new contract until 2 years from now I don’t think KD on a 1+1 deal is hamstringing our future financially, and we would still have plenty of assets left over to make more moves
I agree with everything you say about bringing KD but I think we should hold onto Green & Cam and try to rid ourselves of FVV & Tari FVV & Amen do not sound like a good backcourt. FVV value will only decline & Tari is Tari. We can always trade Jalen next deadline or off season. Cam can also work on developing to take over for Durant in a couple years or replace Jalen if we trade. Will also force Ime's hand to push Amen or Reed as PG
That's fine. You don't like his shortcomings. If a player had no shortcomings, he'd be a generational superstar. Every role player has shortcomings. We all have our own tastes which shortcomings we don't like. Just because you don't like his bad side does not mean he's a bad player. I still think he can be a good backup if he is paid according to his value.
Trading for KD is hard. I don't want to give up any real depth or picks for Durant. The best i would offer some is cap flexibility and second rounders. I would keep our depth as trading ammo for a young star that makes sense with our age group. Maybe even let them continue to develop and raise their stocks so we dont have to trade too much in any future trades.
Whats wrong with running it back and adding the no10 for development and depth? We only added Adams and we went from 0.500 to 2nd seed.
I’m not a fan of FVV and I don’t even think he’s that good, but the drop-off between him running point and someone like Amen or Reed Sheppard is MASSIVE Amen as a PG, I don’t see it…his handle is below average for a PG and his assist percentage is barely higher than his turnover rate there’s no way Reed Sheppard can be counted on to be the starting PG for a team trying to compete and go far in the playoffs if we’re trading Fred, we absolutely must bring in an adequate replacement
Exactly. Why trade any assets for a depreciating asset with a very short shelf life on an expiring deal that does not elevate this team to contention. People are being too impatient and want a quick fix right now. Bunch of junkies. The trade that does happen will most likely be one that is not being discussed, or I sure hope it is.
I get it but Fred was a FA to bridge us to phase 2. He cost us nothing and should be first to go IMO. Same with Brooks. Say what you say about Green but I’m not trading him over FVV who’s hurt half the season. Trading Green or Cam over a declining FVV for a declining Durant just doesn’t make sense to me My off season dream would be KD & Ty Jerome. Let Amen start and Jerome as a stabilizer off bench when it starts to get wacky
I think there are a lot of us that want FVV gone now that were happy with his contract and how he helped this team forward. I am not a hater, but I am a hater of the offense that Ime put on the floor. FVV would make a competent backup, but unfortunately our coach will never play him less that 30 minutes a game. As long as Ime is coach and FVV is healthy, FVV will get monster minutes and us “haters” will be saying the same thing next year. With the results I think we will attain if we run it back, I think more folks will join the chorus of FVV and/or Ime need to go.
