Kilmar Abrego Garcia will not be returned to the US

@tinman

The GSW's facilitated Sengun's chance of scoring by putting podz on him and Sengun still didn't score... Does that mean that mean that The GSW's are challenging the NBA's rule of scoring?

 

I don't know how seriously to take this conversation on a chat board. I'm quite sure I'm not "late to" this conversation.

I think you are probably confusing a limitation on habeas corpus jurisdiction, which wouldn't operate to discharge Garcia from Salvadoran custody, with orders operating in personam on the admin who sent him there, which is comprised of officials over whom the courts very much have jurisdiction. You also seem to think that, because Abrego Garcia is a Salvadoran citizen, courts wouldn't have jurisdiction to order the admin to bring him back, which is also just deeply confused. Finally, just yesterday the Salvadoran Vice President said that they were holding the CECOT detainees at the request of the United States, not as "prisoners of [their] own country."

I get it, you weren't expecting to encounter someone who knows what they're talking about on a message board. Sometimes that's the breaks.

 

“You could get him back,” Moran said to the president. “There’s a phone on this desk.”

“I could,” Trump replied.

Moran continued: “You could pick it up, and with all the power of the presidency, you could call up the president of El Salvador and say, ‘Send him back,’ right now.”


“And if he were the gentleman that you say he is, I would do that,” Trump told the senior correspondent. “But he’s not.”

 

Other lawyers have already chimed in and stated as much...these blockheads aren't trying to understand and just enjoy trolling.

 

No one is saying Trump can't bring him back, we keep telling you the SC ordered for Trump to FACILITATE bringing him back but Bukele said no..... Trump is under no obligation to pick up the phone and demand him back because we have sensitive bored people in this country with nothing better to do other than to support and defend MS13 gang members.....

Maybe its a good idea not to smuggle people into this country?

 

Good, I'm glad, because this is all silly talk.

To be clear though, I'm playing more than an "I'm a lawyer" card. I'm a law professor + habeas corpus litigator and this is my core area of expertise, so I'm annoyed both at the content of these postings and that I'm somehow in an Abrego Garcia debate on clutchfans.

And yet here I am, still!

Also I blame @Nook because I was looking for inside info on the FO and saw a posting in this thread, which is how I got here.

 

I'm just going to keep doing this because I can. it's actually you who's not tracking what's happening here.

Trump has said that he could bring AG back if he wanted to, and the VP of the El Salvador said this week that they are holding prisoners at CECOT at the request of the U.S. There is no evidence anywhere that Trump asked Bukele to bring him back, and Trump quite clearly intimated the opposite in his press briefings. There have also been numerous filings before Judge Xinis, and in none of those publicly available filings - filings made under penalty of perjury - has any DOJ lawyer indicated that there has been any high level attempt to bring AG back. And the reason there are no sworn filings attesting to Admin attempts to bring AG back is because - drawing natural inferences here! - they have not in fact tried.

I don't know if y'all's brains are just pickled in weird right wing media or what, but you're just whiffing on very basic facts. And, by the way, these basic facts are quite consistent with common sense - you think that if the U.S. sent Bukele a prisoner to hold on its behalf, under a very expensive contract, Bukele would refuse to return the prisoner? What geopolitical sense does that make?

 

I know that Trump treats his cult followers as if they are idiots, but it really is something when you think you can get away with talking to people like Trump talks to his supporters.... like they are the dumbest people in the world.

The El Salvador prison gulag is a partnership with the Trump regime. Enough so that they'll even let the Botox lady film propaganda videos in the prison, and Trump can host Bukkake in the oval office, and Don Jr. and Eric regularly hang out with him.

It is insane to think that if Trump called Bukkake and told him he needs to send him back, that he wouldn't oblige. Bukkake and Trump are playing games with the whole "well I wouldn't want to send back a terrorist" narrative. Not one person is dumb enough to believe that nonsense, and I'm kind of sick of you talking to people like they have an IQ of Koala bear.

 

Facilitating his return would be asking Bukele to send Garcia back to the USA - Trump has not done that, he has not asked for the return of Garcia. He has said that he hasn't done that - that he could do that and that he won't do that.

So no - he hasn't facilitated the return of Garcia or even made any effort.

Maybe don't deport people that you are not supposed to deport - that would be a good idea, but that would require competence and the majority of those making these decisions are not competent but have the positions they have because they will do the bidding of Trump without question.

You can find it cute - but just remember that when there is a borderline Marxist Democrat Populist in the Whitehouse openly defying the SCOTUS because they saw Trump do it and get away with it.

 

Pick and choose. Bukele has repeatedly said no and has stated as much Garcia is his prisoner. He is the dictator, not the VP.

But yes, this is about dunking on Trump. It has nothing to do with due process. Peoples rights are violated all the time. It doesn't make it right, but you surely haven't lifted a whisper to help those people. And while you all are spinning your wheels on this nonsense, Trump has opened up several more serious issues.

 

Wow! Insightful. Yes, we all know Trump and Bukele are playing games. Just like when Biden and liberals stated they could do nothing about the border crisis due to the Republican congress. But as we all know, elections have consequences.

And at the current trajectory, JD Vance will be the next president if the Democrats continue to cater to the over emotional liberals instead of focusing on mainstream America.

 

Why would there be any high level of attempt to bring him back? He is a Salvadorian citizen with clear evidence of association with MS13 and human trafficking. Kilmar is not an American Citizen being held in a prison in El Salvador at the request of Trump. We can argue that the Tren de Aragua gang members are, they have no business in El Salvador other than Trump putting them in a prison there due to Venezuela not taking them back but Kilmar is Salvadorian. He was deported under suspicion of being MS13 and what happens to those people in El Salvador?

Pam Bondi has already spoken on behalf of the Trump administration that they would provide a plane for Kilmar if Bukele decided to send him back therefor facilitating his return but Bukele said no. There is not a single judge on this planet that can dictate law and order outside of their country. If I send $5 dollars to someone on Zelle I can't get my money back but you want this county and this president to go out of their way to bring back an illegal alien with clear evidence of not only being a human trafficker and MS13... No.... Life don't work that way just because muh politics....

 

There is no evidence Trump has asked Bukele to return the prisoner; there just isn't. You can talk about a million other things - Bukele said this or that - but you can't find anything suggesting that Trump has tried to facilitate the return. There's no evidence of that the public record, and the reason that there's no public record evidence of that is almost certainly that it hasn't happened. You keep pointing to stuff that Bukele has said, but I'm not sure which comments you are talking about (link?) and can assure you that whatever he says out loud, it doesn't capture the policy of the United States towards CECOT or the contract.

And you say it's got "nothing to do with due process." I'm not sure what that means, I don't even sense that you do. Point of fact, people subject to removal are entitled to certain proceedings to effectuate that removal, and that entitlement is shaped by their due process rights. There are cases going back generations that recognize the due process rights that attach to removal proceedings. These cases date back at least to Yamataya v. Fisher (1903).

And more generally, I don't understand the point about due process rights being violated all the time. Is your point that because there are some violations that we accept or don't avoid, we shouldn't object to any violation?

 

This is irrelevant.

This isn't about "dunking on Trump" - this is about the Executive branch defying the Judicial branch and not respecting the separation of powers... which is a big deal.

 

This is irrelevant.

 

Bro, lol... Facilitate can't be determined by what you feel is enough facilitation. I'm sincerely shocked that you are making this argument, anything Trump does that helps Kilmar get back to The U.S is considered facilitation no matter how much or how little.

 

Again, you seem to think that because he is a Salvadoran citizen accused of being MS-13, he was lawfully removed. That's an amazing claim, considering that even DOJ says that's wrong. DOJ's position isn't that he was lawfully removed, it's that they can't bring him back. As to why would there be a high level attempt to facilitate return, that's because there is a 9-0 court order instructing that such an attempt be made - an order that includes such woke signatories as Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito.

Plus all of this skips over the fact that the *reason* people get things like the order barring AG's removal is because they are entitled to process necessary to dispute MS-13 allegations. (By the way, the MS-13 evidence sucks, but that's honestly so far afield from the legal question that I'm not even getting into it.)

 

So just to be clear, if Trump rounds up all democrats and deports them you believe there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

I don't think he has legally.

I think if he came out and said that he asked El Salvador for the return of Garcia - that would likely be enough. I also think that the SCOTUS thought they were giving him an "out" as well. However, Trump doesn't want an out. There is a reason why he has made it clear that he has not and will not ask Bukele to return Garcia - he wants to test the waters as to what the response of the Court will be. He still has a clear majority on the SCOTUS, and he also knows that the only mechanism to enforce the SCOTUS order is through Congress and that Trump at this point controls Congress.

The SCOTUS doesn't want to come across as weak or that their orders are not enforceable - so we are at a stalemate. If for some reason Trump loses his grip on Congress or it is 2026 and the midterms are bad for Trump - we will suddenly see stronger decisions from the court.

 

And here we are again at a crossroad, there was a 9-0 order instructing an attempt be made but you nor Nook nor Trump nor AOC or anyone can determine how much or how little of an attempt the SC instructed because they didn't. If The SC would have wanted Kilmar back the language should have been clear and precise but because it isn't Trump has already fulfilled the order.