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I Will Not Give Up on this Country

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Nov 6, 2024.

  1. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Correct, because that is what I am (I even provided video evidence), just like that dude is a socialist.
    Nazis and fascists are pretty clear about the supremacy of the state and the subordination of individual freedom. Everything within the state, nothing outside of the state, nothing against the state. I posted a link to On Fascism a while back, did you ever get around to reading it? It isn't very long, and Mussolini makes very explicit what they are talking about.
     
  2. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Y'all need to have a nice 20 minute zoom or phone call on this already.
     
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  3. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Why? He's a communist, I'm a libertarian. We are essentially on the exact opposite corners of the political compass. The only difference is, I don't deny he is what he says he is.
     
  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    What political entity doesn't front face a desire for "freedom"?

    When fascists aren't in power, in bad fait the express principles like free speech and "advocate" for it when like a racist comedian gets "canceled". When in power, those principles are thrown out the window as we can see in the current admin. Because it never was in good faith.

    I'm referring to fascist ideology in general. I believe you when you say you are libertarian. I also believe the ideology of "Libertarianism" was built on a foundation of cards. Because Libertarians defend "freedom" for personal capital and wealth accumulation interests.

    Any example I provide of contradictions like "border security" and strict enforcement of immigration are going to brushed off with "if it's for national security, that's different" which is what our government for the past few decades, particularly since 9/11 have used to erode our civil liberties and now MAGA are doing accelerationism with burning the Bill of Rights in a trash can. Ask yourself how many people who love MAGA, who love the current suspension of due process and are celebrating an El Salvador concentration camp label themselves as "Libertarian".

    Libertarians will come in to defend freedoms only when it comes to property rights, and rights to exploit labor. That is the only aspect of Libertinism that is sincere.

    I don't know what your personal opinion is on these suspensions of civil liberties under Trump. Maybe you are agaisnt them but blame your brethren who are self labeled "libertarians" defending this ****. I've been in enough right wing bubbles full of dudes labeling themselves as "libertarian" celebrating this **** right now. Blame the hollowness of the ideology that allows any Jim Bob to see themselves as one regardless of how giddy they are at the suspension of our most basic principles like due process.
     
  5. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    The absolutely hilarious thing is that you are a communist and talk about the difference between the rhetoric when out of power and the policy implementations when in power of others. It is like you completely lack any awareness of communists throughout history. Have you just never heard of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.?

    I've made my personal opinions on Trump's suspension of due process plain (I oppose it). I have said previously that I am in favor of eliminating the welfare state and then having open borders with completely free movement of labor, so I don't know where this border enforcement for national security idea being attributed to me comes from. I don't know any libertarians that are in favor of scrapping the bill of rights. Anyone can call themselves whatever they want I suppose.
     
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Communism is a distinct ideology with a individual philosopher writing literature forming an ideology. Libertarianism is a lot more of a nebulous term. That is why I am not a communist. I see value in understanding Communism because I think the one aspect of Marx's work that is useful I think is his critique and end state outcomes of capitalism. Solutions are always much harder than understanding the problem. You can say you are a Libertarian because you aren't going to point to a single piece of work that represents all Libertarianism. Relative to Communism, Libertarianism is more like "vibes" than a very distinct specific ideology.

    Also Communism is an ideology that can only exist under the setting of capitalism due to much of the ideology is implanting solutions to an existing problem. You can't have communism without capitalism. Fascism and Communism are reactionary movement to the failures of capitalism. Neither can exist without capitalism first more specifically when capitalism is struggling.

    I prefer some of the command economy aspects of more Communist coded countries like China(its technically a mixed economy) but I prefer the civil rights in Western nations such as more reliable due process standards and free speech standards though those are rapidly changing also in the wrong direction in America.

    Trump is mimicking all the worst parts of China but none of the good parts.
     
    #386 fchowd0311, Apr 15, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2025
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  7. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    The trump admin is the most anti libertarian government in our lifetime. They are literally going after TV stations for unfavorable coverage. They are attempting to pull CBS broadcasting license bcz they dislike the coverage. They are giving "tariff exemptions" to anyone who's willing to pay Trump which hurts small businesses but favors big corporations. Hes using the power of the government to audit and go after anyone who disagrees with him. Hes sueing law firms who have gone against him in the past. Hes forcing private universities to hire professors who he wants hired to push MAGA ideology.

    I don't understand how none of you have any dignity left. Trump isn't a conservative. He's a facist
     
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  8. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Gee, I guess it's a good thing I didn't vote for Trump then.
     
  9. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    You should have just took your ballot and wiped your ass with it...either way it'd be the same outcome.
     
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  10. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Literally true of anyone who has ever voted in an election that was not decided by a single vote. What a meaningless post.
     
  11. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Say what you need to defend voting for a person who never had a chance of obtaining the office.
     
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  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    You are probably at a age where it's too late to be introspective at a level where you can acknowledge your hatred of people who don't share your culture and lack of empathy is a core aspect of how the MAGA movement has succeeded and eroded basic civil rights. You should acknowledge that the current MAGA administration is the end state result of your ideology and world view even if you are too ashamed to admit it.

    Otherwise it seems like the erosion of the Bill of rights for you is more of a inconvenience rather than something you'll fight to death to preserve as a patriot because you aren't a patriot.
     
    #392 fchowd0311, Apr 16, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2025
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  13. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Nah, MAGA is way to big government interventionist to be the end state of my ideology. About the closest they are getting is with stuff like getting rid of USAID. I also tend not to hate people, mostly I don't really think about strangers very much, certainly not enough to hate them. I have what I like to call, "my own life" to think about.
    I never claimed to be a patriot, that I can recall. I probably do more to defend the Bill of Rights than most though, given it is part of my job.
     
  14. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    I come back to this video twice a year to get my head right. This isn't the first time nor will it be the last that this **** happens...

     
  15. leroy

    leroy Member
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    I dislike this argument. Yes, we live in a primarily 2 party country but I have no qualms with people who vote for a party based on their beliefs. Yes, even the magats. They have their reasons...even if they're racist, inherently stupid, and/or completely harmful to the nation and the world...it's how the system was designed to work.

    Now, does that mean those people and possibly the country as a whole will suffer consequences because of those votes? Yeah, probably. But, IMO (and speaking as a Dem who lives in Montgomery County), there are no wasted votes.
     
  16. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    I usually don't either but a vote for Chase Oliver was worthless, no way did he have a chance of winning. People that do this type of thing are why Trump is President now...reeking havoc on the system we know and loved.
     
  17. leroy

    leroy Member
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    It's not though. If every single person that didn't vote for rep or dem voted for Harris, then she would've won the popular vote by about 630k votes. I'm not going state by state to see if that means it would've turned any electoral votes her way. It's not the reason why he won. The Democratic Party chaos is more of the reason. Had President Biden made the decision early and publicly that he wasn't going to run for a 2nd term, allowing for a proper primary, I feel like the Dem would've been more competitive, EC wise, and likely would've won. I'm not so shortsitghted as to think Harris would've been the nominee. I don't think she would've.

    My personal opinion is that President Biden should've been finishing his 2nd term in 2024. Had he run in 2016, I have no doubt he would've been the nominee and would've beaten trump for the 1st time. And then probably again in 2020 and he'd be gone from our consciousness.
     
  18. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Now that we can agree on and Hillary should have never received the nomination but that's the process...
     

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