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WTF Happened in 1971?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Xerobull, Dec 12, 2021.

  1. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Aged like wine
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    China also has a huge and growing consumer base. If we are mainly concerned about China, the administration’s methods could backfire.

    The video assumes there's a clear strategy, but I don’t think that’s the case. There are competing factions inside the administration.

    One group is the hardline tariff nationalists, like Stephen Miran and Russell Vought. They see tariffs as historically beneficial and push for a return to that model, even leaning toward isolationism. It's a "Fortress America" mindset, where tariffs are the goal, not just a negotiation tool.

    Then there are the realigners, which the video focuses on. They want to restructure globalization, not abandon it. For them, tariffs are a way to punish adversaries and rebuild domestic supply chains without wrecking global trade.

    Right now, it looks like the hardliners are in control.
     
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  3. Invisible Fan

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    .
     
    #43 Invisible Fan, Apr 4, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2025
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  4. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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  5. Invisible Fan

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    Sure, why not. I won't be checking clutchfans this weekend.

    Imagine the dollar as Windows 10. It's everywhere and embedded in almost every computer system worldwide. It's easy to find other people to use it and it's a convenient platform to connect with others like trade.

    That system is so global, there's even a pirated clone of it outside of the Fed's purview. I couldn't find recent numbers, but the WEF in '23 claimed there were 65T in eurodollar debt worldwide. They could expire in weeks, months, or years, but main point is that it dwarfs the 32T in US treasuries. If a group like EU where most of these swaps originated from have a bulk of that debt, then they're more likely to submit to American influence over pretending they can ring in China and others to punish Trump. The belly aching is priced in.

    With that in mind, BRICS love the dollar but they hate our banks and supporting financial systems like SWIFT. Windows, for all it warts works good enough. No one likes EU linux...bleh, ptooey. Ever tried opening an openoffice doc and it worked? Booooo.... There's some insight to what China does with their BRI countries. They saddle up loans, but not necessarily in dollars. One is a credit swap, kinda like paypal bucks in RMB. Another is a direct barter where it's manufactured goods for the raw material. The manufactured goods usually come with capital to extract or raise the raw material so there's a virtuous cycle. But main thing is that if it happens outside our system, then the West can not see or know the exact details. The other thing with these BRI countries is that the contracts are mostly hidden with NDA. This gives them enough wiggle room to lie in front of the press to discredit Debt Trap Diplomacy, while making sure the debtor doesn't snitch to other orgs like the IMF. For the most part, Chinese want good relations with these countries since short term debt capture plays against long term gains. We don't have critical resources or contracts to de-risk China, and the countries that have those reserves...they're BRI countries.

    Crypto is also taking an increasingly important role to evade Western banking system. Russia is funding its oil trade through crypto, and BRICS are testing their limits with it. That's also why Trump has an interest in it.

    If you're looking at the next steps, Trump is enshittifying Windows. He's putting subscription based plan that bundles Windows with Office365. The whole package is dollar, military, and American consumers. But if he doesn't do it and instead pretend like past presidents that we're still in control and making money and through Windows, then China will continue to eat our lunch. The dollar will still be around. Our GDP will look great while the bottom 80% (and growing) of Americans get left behind and outcompeted.

    Don't look at what the US is doing. We're reacting. Look at what China has done with supply chain and resources. If they continue to improve and manufacture battery, robotics, and renewable tech, they don't need the petrodollar. The trade becomes broader in commodities that they mostly refine and dominate.

    We're really playing catchup at this point and cashing in our chips. Another Plaza Accords would be nice for the short run, but it doesn't address supply chain and manufacturing constraints, and we're still figuring out who our partners will be. Euro is so heavily in debt and all their good manufacturing has either relocated or been taken over (stolen) by China, that there's no real way to distinguish what companies would serve as a backdoor to any trade agreement. They were also deeply in bed with the Chinese right before Putin invaded Kiev. There's too many loopholes with shell corps over what's made in Europe that's manufactured in China. Their agreements will have to be redrawn at a price.
     
  6. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    It's not going to happen overnight, but even a 10 percent change over time has a huge impact in the long run. I'm not saying that the end goal isn't noble, but this shock and awe approach has lots of risk. Not only economically but to the fabric of this country.

    This is even bigger than what Carter had to do to overcome stagflation. The crazy interest rates hurt a lot and really impacted his legacy but looking back we know if Carter didn't do what he did, Reagan wouldn't have looked as good as he did. Carter became the bad guy for the good of the country.
     
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  7. adoo

    adoo Member

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    another cut n paste job---pretending it's your own opinion----from the same source that would have you to believe that the Fed is wrecking its balance sheet


    • after reaching a historic high level, Fed's assets have been declining, but still above pre-pandemic levels
      • invisible's has been parroting the spin "the Fed is wrecking its balance sheet"
    • china is increasing pushing its yuan as the currency for oil deals
      • invisible has been parroting the spin "China doesn't need the petrodollar"
     
    #47 adoo, Apr 5, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2025
  8. adoo

    adoo Member

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    counter point, in retrospect, this was a blessing in disguise.

    this (suspension of dollar convertibility to gold) happened when
    • the US was continuing to spend a lot of $ supporting the South Vietnamese Gov't in the civil war there
    • there were oil embargos by oil-producing nations, applying inflationary pressure worldwide
    the US dollars was declining against its peers; the US economy seemed to be declining as well

    In 1973 Nixon sent his Treasury Secretary, William Simon, and Kissinger, to Saudi Arabia to stop the bleeding from a
    devastating oil embargo against the US


    They struck a deal---packaging economic and military incentive---that revolutionized the global financial system in ways we live with to this day —
    cementing American control over a critical chokepoint for decades to come

    In exchange for American military assistance and continued oil purchases, the Saudis would funnel their oil money into U.S. Treasury bonds, which they would be permitted to
    buy in secret outside the normal auctions. Simon/ Kissinger had secured a commitment by a foreign country to finance American deficits
    and the petrodollar was born.

    This deal, known as the "Petroleum Agreement", was a game-changer for the US economy. The agreement ensured that all OPEC oil transactions would be conducted in US dollars,
    making the dollar the global reserve currency.

    The Petrodollar's success was a result of the US government's strategic move to stabilize the global economy. By linking the price of oil to the dollar,
    the US government effectively created a self-sustaining cycle of demand for the dollar.

    as of today,
    • US's GDP approximate 25% of the global GDP
    • ~~62% of global commerce is conducted using the US dollars
     
    #48 adoo, Apr 5, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2025
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  9. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I personally think what Biden did was a better tactic. Keep the US dollar as the reserve currency but use a significant amount of that benefit in subsidizing strategic manufacturing like silicone fab plants. I don't care who owns the factories in the US because in the case of war, the government can temporarily nationalize those factories and capabilities. Tesla and space X wouldn't exist with government subsidies.
     
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  10. adoo

    adoo Member

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    The Chinese Yuan is often floated as being a replacement. However, it isn’t necessarily something that China wants.
    The Chinese Yuan has been one of the world’s most managed currencies over the last several decades, so it would remain undervalued to encourage Chinese exports.

    If the Yuan became the world’s reserve currency, the Reserve Currency Paradox could undo their entire export-based economy.

    So, in reality, China needs the petrodollar for its export-dependent economy
     
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  11. adoo

    adoo Member

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    the most recent eg why China needs the Eurodollar

    it facilitates PRC's effort to devalue its currency in its recent tariffs war against the US



    Amid Trump's tariff offensive, China lets yuan slide to 19-month low


    The timing of the adjustment reflects growing urgency in Beijing to support its faltering export sector,
    now under heightened strain from Washington’s aggressive tariff hikes.

    A weaker yuan would make Chinese goods more competitive overseas,
    potentially offsetting some of the damage from American duties.


     
    #51 adoo, Apr 8, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2025
  12. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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  13. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    In 1971, the FDA concluded that expanded uses of a DuPont product Zonyl RP, which contained PFOA, were safe for food packaging. This decision followed a resubmitted migration test that showed a maximum migration of 70,000 parts per trillion (ppt) for fatty food and 90,000 ppt for liquid food, according to a report from the Environmental Working Group. This decision was made despite prior concerns about the potential migration of PFAS (Perfluorinated Aliphatic Substances) from food packaging into food.

    https://www.ewg.org/research/decade...text=FDA permits 3M petition to,March 7, 1983
     

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