The “give me Harden over FVV” takes are embarrassing

It is the same player to me, he had a decent season his 1st year and then he had a bad season.

I am no fan of his.

Just as I am not expecting for Brooks to shoot 39% the rest of his career, I am not expecting anything from FVV.

 

according to AI...

"While both Scottie Pippen and Clyde Drexler were exceptional players, Scottie Pippen is often considered the better player overall due to his superior all-around game, particularly his defense and rebounding, and his impact on championship teams."




so... Which worked out better for our Rox?




and just for grins n giggles, what does ai have to say?

"Determining definitively who is "better," James Harden or Fred VanVleet, is subjective and depends on the criteria used for evaluation. However, Harden is generally considered a more prolific scorer and playmaker, while VanVleet is known for his defensive versatility and shooting ability"

lol

 

I think we def can't expect better, but after Harden's decline from a top 10 player to a top 30 player in 2021-2022, he has been able to maintain that level since. Hopefully FVV can at least maintain this level for a couple more years.

 

I think we have to ask ourselves what can we expect FVV to do better going forward after this year besides shoot? His defense and getting. Seemed out won’t get better. He’s not going to grow taller. Slimming down won’t do anything. I thought FVv was at least close to the level of CP3 defensively but he’s not. When CP3 played for us, CP3 never seemed out as much as FVV and when he did , it wasn’t successful that often to spam it. Same could be said for Lowry and Aaron Brooks. We’re starting to routine ot see playoffs team(Denver and Lakers did it a lot) seek out FVV on defense .

that’s why I think something has to change. We have three options k our starting lineup that can be exploited between FVv, Sengun and sometimes even Jalen. It’s time to move on from FVv in a heavy role in Houston

 

I don't think alot of our players would develop with Frauden. Yes if you inspire to be a stand still shooter or a lob threat

 

How does this make any sense, when you consider what his current and former teammates have said about him?

 

it’s just a narrative people can’t help but run with

Zubac out here looking like a top 5 C, now imagine Sengun

Norman Powell was having a career year before his injury, now imagine Jalen Green

Derick Jones Jr is averaging a career high in ppg and 3 point percentage, now imagine Tari Eason

Paul George had a career high in FG% and TS% last season, now imagine Idk, Jabari

Clippers can afford to start a non-shooter in Kris Dunn because they have Harden, now imagine a far more talented and skilled Amen Thompson

Maxey says time and time again how much he learned from Harden and how much he helped him grow and develop, now imagine Reed Sheppard

 

Going Forward:
1. Basketball wise what do we expect from FVV
2. What do you expect his next contract to be

1. Can he maintain his current level? I don't think he can get better at this point
2. I don't expect him to take a contract less than 25 million . .. maybe not less than. 30 million

Rocket River

 

Harden closing the year pretty strong.. not bad for a "WASHED" player!

 

no one said that on here. Literally no one

 

Or Harden would revert them to a culture and identity they desperately wanted to escape from. There’s 2 sides to this coin. You and many underestimate the value of having certain players, personalities, and experiences to a team. This goes for any team whether sports or corporate. Every hiring manager understands how important fit and culture is. That’s why some teams fail because the fit was bad. The culture was bad. The leadership was bad.

Harden plays no defense and that’s a fact. His personality is laid back and he is not vocal on the court and that’s a fact. He has never won a championship while struggling on some of the biggest stages in the biggest games of his career. There were several reports of him leading a toxic culture of privilege and lack of accountability. He is a vet and star who is expected to lead, is this the exemplary attitude, style, or spirit we want our guys to emulate?

 

But unlike Harden Horry is a champion. Fred is too

 

You don’t know that. We can sit here and debate all day. End of the day Fred led this team to being better than they were 2 years ago. End of story

 

Hakeem couldn’t have won it without Horry. And no one on this site said Fred is a better overall player. No one. The discussion has been who is the better fit or has Fred made this team better.

 

Harden > fvv.
The whole premises of this thread was folks who preferred him over fvv are embarrassing.

The better player overall is somehow not the better choice. How stupid.

 

Its pretty sad people are hanging on to Harden when the guy hasn’t been here in 5 years. The discussion isn’t even about who’s better. And scoring points isn’t the only thing that makes a player great. Quite ridiculous discussion as it now turns into who’s better than who.

 

None. He couldn’t close the deal when it mattered. He’s also gone. No need to relish in the past

 

No. They had a culture and identity before him. They aren’t a young up and coming team that needed an identity like the Rockets. 2 different situations. Kawhi is a big part of that culture. Along with Powell and Zubac. All very good defenders.

 

No that’s not the premise. The premise is not about who is the better player but you and a lot of these people keep reverting to this. The OP specifically talked about what Fred brought to this team and the reason why he was brought here and why Harden wasn’t a fit and why Harden is not here. This somehow turned into who’s a better player. The key takeaway to this discussion is talent doesn’t always mean fit and it doesn’t always equate wins or championships. Look at the 2004 Lakers or 2000 Blazers or 2004 USA Team

 

FVV reminds me of World B Free a little the way he can sky that 3 point shot. I'd take FVV taking the last shot of the game over Harden and especially if it was a 3 pointer.