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FVV needs to go if he asks for more than 10m/year

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by shorey, Mar 28, 2025.

  1. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    The operative word in the sentence is "all". Again, if Jalen has an average night last night, the Rockets win. Why is the FVV's fault?
     
  2. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    Sure, but FVV is what he is. He was always a stop gap player hence why the last two seasons of his contract are team options.

    The Rockets go as far as Jalen and Alpi take them. Those are your star players. They both played sub-par last night. If the star players were playing like stars, maybe that frees up FVV to play at his best. Any team that is relying on FVV to be their #1 option has much larger issues. THAT is the question you should asking. Not why is FVV having his worst season.

    FVV may be having an off year but the team is playing well. He's doing his job. Now the stars need to learn how to be stars. ...oh and Udoka needs to not get outcoached.

    I agree they need to upgrade FVV, if possible, but he isn't the problem. He's a symptom.
     
  3. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    The plan is the plan and the plan is working. Anybody who's upset with where the Rockets currently sit is suffering from a case of moved goal posts.

    When they got FVV, the goal was not championships. It was to be competitive again or "phase 2". As Fertita said, they need to walk before they run. "Phase 3" was contention. They got to "phase 3" faster than anybody anticipated. (aka, a good problem to have)

    Give Stone tons of credit cause he negotiated an option on FVV's contract.
     
  4. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    Oh, I agree with this - at least the bottom line - Stone deserves a ton of credit for the teams accomplishments thus far. None of us expected a 2 seed , we were just hoping they might make the play in .... We are ahead of schedule.


    But that doesn't change the facts - FVV has been putrid most of the season. Dude is shooting below 40% from the floor .... his only redeeming quality is walking the ball across the timeline without turning it over.
    He gets targeted on defense .... abused. Just watch what the Lakers did to hm last night.

    Being ahead of schedule is great, but how do you take the next step? A little internal growth and a little outside improvement.
    The most obvious position to improve ..... point guard. <40% from the floor, below average from 3, can't finish at the rim, in the lane .... No Gravity to create outside of the PnR.

    And let's not forget about the finances - picking up FVV's option immediately makes you a 1A team and filling out the roster might even push you into the 2A.
    That's terrible for the future because you are going to have to make decisions on your young guys before you really want / have to.
    Letting FVV walk, declining Holiday's option and Jock's non-guaranteed contract gives you a little over $29m+ along with the room exception to fill in the holes .... while keeping you not only under the 1A but under the tax line which buys you more time for a 2A team down the line without the major penalties of being 2A 3 out of 5 years before you are actually a contender.

    .... and if you listen to most posters on CF, Tilman's cheap (or broke?), you know he's gonna want to avoid being a luxury tax paying team so he gets that share of the tax payer $$$.


    Sure, maybe you can trade him but at $44.6m I'm not sure he isn't a negative asset after the way he has played most of the season. What does it cost you to move that contract?
     
  5. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member
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    10 mil a year makes little sense for a vet 3 yr deal considering more sorry vet players and rookie scale contracts getting more than 10 mil
     
  6. luckyman76

    luckyman76 Member

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    $43M...In my life I have never seen the amount of excuses made for a player making max money. I along with everyone else gladly faulted Harden for his shortcomings and he took regular abuse here as he should. FVV fans are like LOF. It's f**king incredible. Yes, playing WITH a PG is better than playing WITHOUT one. I'm not sure what else you can say that is positive. If FVV was making vet min or room and playing 15 minutes a game everyone would be happy. Which would you rather have right now FVV or CP3?
     
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  7. NotTooYoungtoContend

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    Fred's shooting is really bad this season but otherwise, he's been excellent. Unlike Jalen, FVV's defense is elite. FVV also coordinates the offense and limits turnovers. Despite the poor shooting, FVV is a much better overall player at this time than Jalen Green.

    That may change in a year or two but Fred is still very important to our success.

    The goal for next season needs to be to let Jalen and Amen run the offense with Alpi also involved and making smart passes. Fred will be more of an off-the-ball player next season if everything goes right. I believe FVV is hitting around 39 percent this season on wide-open 3 which is a pretty good number. The hope is Fred gets more catch-and-shoot situations next season. Fred trying to create and taking mid-range shots hasn't one well.

    We need a competent backup PG as well so FVV doesn't play 36 minutes per game. Keeping Fred below 30 mpg will result in better overall performance.
     
  8. sheb

    sheb Member

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    Elite defense? Did you watch the game last night. Every Lakers position was to get an iso with Fred. FVV to small to guard when we’re doing our switching
     
  9. PeterKingX

    PeterKingX Member

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    His defense is elite? The Lakers went against him every time last game. Lol
     
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  10. PeterKingX

    PeterKingX Member

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    Fred earns the same salary as Luka Doncic.

    What a joke.
     
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  11. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    He won in life as Luka has more talent in his little pinky.

     
  12. Bridget_C_Lynx

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    what's worse, we have a #3 pick that will make fans so satisfied if he becomes a FVV-level player in the future.
     
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  13. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    For five seasons prior to this one, FVV was on average a 19 and 7 guy on 40% / 37% shooting (with very high 3P attempts)

    This season is an outlier, either he's had a sudden dramatic decline or he's been very unlucky with his jump shooting.
     
    #153 OremLK, Apr 1, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2025
  14. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Scratch that. If we can't do anything to help Jalen score it means he's not critical to the team's success except when in the 5% of games he's on fire with his jumper. That means the team is certainly not built around him. He's practically an afterthought in this offense, I don't know why we give him such high usage. No one who wants their scoring guard to be a critical component of offense then goes and puts them on the floor with two negative-shooters. Right now we start 2 non-shooters and our bench is based on double bigs who can't shoot. This is the anti-Jalen rotation for almost 48 minutes.

    This team is built around Sengun and Amen to battle in an allegedly unavoidable crowded paint. FVV to set Sengun up in PnR and dictate the pace. That's what we are and what Udoka wants. Jalen does whatever coach asks, that's been established to death by now.

    Good news is last I checked he and Brooks were both making over 39% of open catch and shoot 3's. No excuses for Sengun/Amen to bring games home. Udoka should tell Jalen to stop taking pull up 3's, he's

    Let's please put the appropriate responsibility onto those in the paint, post and dunkers spot. This is Sengun/FVV/Amen's team on offense. Jalen is more like a 3rd scorer here.
     
  15. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    Context matters. The cap situation is currently fine.

    The ONLY reason FVV is making max $ is because the Rockets were UNDER the salary cap. If they didn't spend $ then they would have been taxed and gave that money to Adam Silver. That and the Rockets were a dumpster team and needed to entice players to come to Houston. So the reason FVV is getting 43mm is very contextual and doesn't have much to do with his production and also doesn't otherwise negatively impact the team's cap situation.

    Stop obsessing over the salary vs. performance. FVV's salary is irrelevant, up to this summer.

    Now this summer, the Rockets have a decision to make. But that decision is by design and is going to plan. Give Stone credit, instead of bashing him, for ensuring FVV is on a team option cause now he has flexibility at exactly the time that he needs it.
     
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  16. baubo

    baubo Member

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    The answer to your question is that the Rockets haven't really decided who to build around yet. Perhaps this season has solidified the pecking order to be Amen and Sengun. But it wasn't clear at beginning of the year. I don't mind the awkward fit for this year personally. Because it's about youngsters develop rather than building a cohesive contender.

    I think this offseason will say a lot about who the Rockets care about the most. I do agree with you for the most part that in their current roles and current skillsets, Amen and Jalen don't really work with each other.
     
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  17. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    You misread my post, I'm not saying Jalen and Amen don't work together. I'm not saying Jalen and Sengun don't work together.

    Jalen and Sengun with Amen off the bench was on a 50-win pace anyway. Jalen and Amen without Sengun looked deadly this season and had the longest winning streak in the NBA last season.

    It's Sengun and Amen that make it insanely difficult for Jalen to get drives, which is the most efficient and important shot in basketball. If you have those two starting, the other 3 won't be doing anything but taking jumpers and still we will have bad spacing.

    There's no one who's not going to see their efficiency drop with two negative shooters clogging the paint at the same time. It's why Cade sucked last season. It's why Banchero's efficiency sucks despite his size and talent.

    If our goal is to see what happens, we've put them all in a bad position. Spacing is not aspirational, almost all good teams are 4-out or 5-out. We're not just bad, we're atrocious at it and the coach is doubling down on it. Giannis couldn't survive without 4 shooters around him. I don't know why it would work.

    Spacing literally makes everyone better or worse, and the worst spacing in the West means we've suffocated our scorers more than anyone else.

    Anyway, let's see what happens. I'm sure it's going to be interesting. Just want people to understand that it's on Amen and Sengun to do the most important thing: get lots of iso points in the playoffs where you can't avoid that.
     
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  18. luckyman76

    luckyman76 Member

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    You just don't get it. I know more about the CBA than you do. I know we rented our cap to FVV and Brooks. I know about operating ABOVE the cap. It doesn't erase the obsession around here excusing FVV's horrible performance AND talking about the need to RESIGN him long term. Not to trade him but to KEEP him.

    I know more about trades as well. I know that we squandered a lot of expiring assets at the deadline because aw shucks dem kids rather than actually trying to help the team. We can make deals in the offseason with potentially more roster spot flexibility but at the loss of those expiring assets.

    I'm not excusing the fact that we are a poor shooting team and commented frequently about us being a dumpster team before last season. I was also very clear about believing in the guys and giving them time. I have liked Stone's drafting but have been critical of his trade assessment of players. He has handled draft acquisition well but poorly managed several players and assets. This isn't John Wall. FVV is not irrelevant, he is actively costing us games for many of the reasons he was supposedly the best option. A player and his contract always go hand in hand because you have to maximize asset return. We are HOPING someone will take him as an expiring asset as the best option.
     
  19. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    First, you don't know what I know. Secondly, you probably do know more than me. ;)

    Regardless, your statement validates my statement:
    "I know we rented our cap to FVV and Brooks"

    That is exactly my point so not sure why you feel like you need to contradict me by agreeing. lol

    Then you got all emotional about discussing "obsessions", "excusing", and "horrible performances". Let's be a little more logical here. The only argument I've been making is that signing FVV in 2023 wasn't a catastrophic mistake as so many people around here keep suggesting due to his current shooting slump. In fact, signing FVV with two years of team options is genius and this summer, after watching what happens in the playoffs, Stone will have roster flexibility and won't be locked into a long term deal, like having James Harden locked in for 2 more years.

    In the meantime, the FVV signing has served it's purpose of helping the Rockets get out of the basement (aka "Phase 2"). This summer will be the beginning of Phase 3. How good/bad FVV is playing right now isn't all that relevant in the big picture. The Rockets were never supposed to be a contender this season so who cares? Things are good and going to plan.
     
  20. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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