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DOGE The Eschaton

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Nov 13, 2024.

  1. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    the main export of the USA is dollars.
    and BRICS was threatening that.


    Trump is trying to make sure the dollar stays dominant, and may have to crash the stock market to save the bond market. If there are no buyers for Us treasuries and we can’t continue to refinance the massive debt we’ve piled up we are truly ****ed.

    Most folks don’t think about that stuff. I’m pretty sure the lefty voters think the govt has a massive stash of cash the republicans refuse to share. The reality is they have less than zero dollars. They have $36 trillion in debt. $10 trillion has to be refinanced this year.

    Would you refinance your house right now?
     
    #561 Tomstro, Mar 5, 2025
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2025
  2. Nook

    Nook Member

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    If Trump is so concerned about the massive debt, why is he actually INCREASING the debt and giving huge tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.

    When Trump took office in 2016, the debt was 2.9% of the GDP and right now it is 7% of the GDP.

    That is a result in part from less tax revenue after his tax cuts in 2016 and also increased spending - and as a result the debt ration had more than doubled.

    You simply cannot have it both ways - as it is simple mathematics.

    If Donald Trump was truely concerned about debt and debt ratio - he would not be extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, that played a large part in debt increases. He also would not have a budget that overall increases spending and tax cuts.

    That is why any claims that Donald Trump is serious about the deficit fall on deaf ears. His chief legislation in his first term was massive tax cuts that benefited the uber wealthy and increased the deficit. Now in his second term his top legislation is to do the same thing with massive tax cut continuations.

    The proof is in the pudding. Trump has shown no tangible actions to decrease the deficit.

    Also - no, I don't think most "leftists" think that there is a massive amount of cash that the Republicans refuse to share. The reality is that President Trump has shown he has no issue running out a budget that increases the deficit and he has no issues with cutting tax revenue for the ultra wealthy --- he just doesn't have the same desire to do it for the poor and middle class Americans. He wants to spend money just only on the things and projects HE likes.... which is fine, he was elected President.... but the idea that President Trump is some austere balanced budget figure is completely the opposite of everything that he has done and supported.
     
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  3. adoo

    adoo Member

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    ROFLMAO. such willful ignorance!

    Why the BRICS currency experiment continues to be an abject failure


    IF pigs can fly !

    US's GDP is ~~ 25% of the global GDP; ~~60% of the global commerce is conducted using the US dollars.
    what part of the dollar hegemony you don't understand?
     
    #563 adoo, Mar 5, 2025
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2025
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  4. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    We have a federal spending problem -- not a receipts problem. Biden raised the level of government spending by $2 trillion a year. That must be reversed or else our financial system is toast. Trump's tax cuts led to HIGHER tax receipts, as the tax relief propelled economic growth forward.

    To be healthy financially, we need to cut around $1.5 trillion a year in federal spending. The economy should do well, with deregulation and tax cuts powering growth. So again, tax receipts should be fine... it's the spending that must be reigned in. That's why DOGE is attacking the problem, and we've got the sharpest minds in America all over it. Which is why DOGE is so popular amongst Americans.

    GOOD DAY
     
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  5. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    LOL, look at Nook playing dumb and hoping no one calls him out.

    DOGE is targeting federal spending directly and was a centerpiece of the campaign and the first 2 months. An extraordinarily popular program.


    GOOD DAY
     
  6. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    He doesn’t even get to vote on the budget, Congress does. I haven’t seen exactly what the tax cuts look like.
    Has anyone? Have you?
    Have the lefties? Or are they just puking up what MSNBC told them.

    If it’s corporate tax then it’s too high. Biden jacked it way up. It forces companies overseas.
    Lower tax rates and access to capital brings business to America, which brings jobs and higher standards of living.

    The BS lefty take of eat the rich, they should pay more is nonsense. Elon paid the largest tax bill ever paid last year. And it’s still not enough?
    It’s commie ****.

    The everything is free party wants those of us who work hard paying for all the entitlements.
    I should not be on the hook for paying for free health care for migrants who got here 2 months ago while my kids don’t get those same benefits?

    All taxation is theft.

    The government should be in charge of defense, the border, trade agreements and not much else. I guess medicine which they obviously suck at.
     
    #566 Tomstro, Mar 5, 2025
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2025
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  7. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    We fought a revolution over 3% tax
    My bro now pays almost 50% in Cali and they have awful roads, high crime, shitty schools. So what’s the money for?

    He doesn’t use many state services. Kids in private school, has solar power and they have their own healthcare. So his household pays in a
    Massive sum of money for what? Fire dept that can’t fight fires? High energy costs. Water rationing.

    If them dems ever truly take over the whole country will be Cali and it will be a disaster.
     
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  8. basso

    basso Member
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    it'd be better to just shut it down altogether.

    flat-tax that ish on a postcard.
     
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The House passed the blueprint back in February.

    Yes, it is Trump's budget plan.

    It calls for 4.5 trillion dollars in tax cuts for the wealthy.

    It calls for increasing the debt limit 4 trillion dollars to pay for the increased deficit in the bill.

    I have seen MSNBC maybe twice in my entire lifetime.

    So the numbers are the numbers --- Trump isn't about decreasing the deficit.


    When you claimed that billionaires are paying too much - that is all I needed to hear.

    You have a good day now.
     
  10. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    Did I or did I not say that all taxation is theft?

    But your takeaway can be whatever you want it to be.
     
  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    We need roads, we need police - we need a fire department and many other things that require taxes.

    So, say all taxation is theft doesn't really mean anything in the real world.

    Also - you brought up Elon Musk and his taxes and that you believe that he paid enough.

    The tax cuts you support overwhelmingly benefit the ultra-wealthy.

    You are entitled to your opinions - but if we cannot agree over something as simple as billionaires not paying enough in taxes and the wealth inequality in this country is out of control: then we won't get anywhere having a conversation.

    I respect your right to have your opinions, to vote and to believe in what you believe in: we just have very different beliefs on this topic.
     
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  12. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    You keep misquoting me. I never said “billionaires pay too much”. That’s what you want to hear. I said all taxation is theft.
     
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  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    "The BS lefty take of eat the rich, they should pay more is nonsense. Elon paid the largest tax bill ever paid last year. And it’s still not enough?
    It’s commie ****."


    This is why I believed that you did not believe that billionaires pay enough in taxes.

    If that is a misinterpretation, then I stand corrected.

    As I explained, from my perspective that all taxation is theft really means nothing because taxation pays for services that citizens in a nation need and those that pay taxes benefit from those services.

     
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  14. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    The expectation to seize anyone else’s earnings or productivity they sacrificed their time and energy is immoral at its base.
    Why is the government entitled to confiscate my earnings to pay for **** I have no say in?

    Prior to 1913 there was no income tax at all. None.
    They introduced it as a temporary measure to pay for WW1 and here we are.
     
  15. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    Actually taxes only pay for the interest Payments on the debt. They don’t pay for programs. We pay with debt based printed money.

    Let me ask you this ….
    Why do we have to work and produce to be paid in money they just print out of nothing?

    US dollar is only backed by the agreement that it’s worth something and the threat of violence.
    Basically the US Military.

    Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, all said they didn’t want to use dollars and look what happened.
     
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  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Having people that benefit from the rules and laws of society - including the services is not immoral. If someone does not like it, they can attempt to get citizenship in a country like Sudan where there are no real taxes.

    Why is the government entitled to confiscate your earnings to pay for things you have no say in? You have a vote, you also can use the court systems to attempt to fight it as well. It is the same argument as saying "why should I have to follow laws that I had no part in making."

    As for there being no income tax until 1913 - what does that matter? Women could not vote until 1920 and the passing of the 19th Amendment. The world isn't static, times and conditions change and successful people and governments adjust. In 1910 the USA had a far larger poverty rate as well.

    Having said that, there was an income tax before 1913, there was one for like a decade if I remember correctly. There was also a corporate income tax before then.

    Also, the push for an income tax was in response to the economic collapse in the USA before 1900 because the economy was so horrendous - so it wasn't simply to pay for WWI. The idea that it was temporary was not clear cut either.

    The current marginal tax rate is near the lowest it has been since right before the Great Depression. In my lifetime it was 50% higher from a marginal standpoint.
     
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  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    We use money raised from taxes to pay for many things - including services.

    Concerning the gold standard or silver standard - we can have that discussion, but I would point out that the US has seen massive growth since going off the gold standard.

    The US dollar is backed by consumer/investor confidence.

    Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan have had huge issues for a long time - and that is other than the idea that we invaded them or destroyed them because they did not want to use the US dollar.

    I am certainly not an expert on Libya. I am fairly familiar with the history of Afghanistan but not enough to have a nuanced conversation. When it comes to Iraq I am very well versed on it's history and culture and live with Iraqi's .... but I do not live there.
     
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  18. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    To your earlier point, taxes and laws are different. We need law, yes. Laws about illegal activity tend be a bit clearer than sending money to Pakistan or to some NGo that then gets sent back to some Senators wife’s program. It’s a scam.
     
  19. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    Old way was use tax money to pay for stuff we need. (Lol mostly)

    Now they just spend whatever they want, borrow the money on our behalf and stick us with the bill.

    Pentagon alone had 1.6 billion in actual credit card bills. For gambling, sushi, personal subscriptions.

    It’s so big that it’s way too easy to hide the waste and fraud and now the group saying “hold up this is bullshit” are considered Nazis.
     
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  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I think that this is a valid point. From a macro level it is very hard to get things done without some degree of discretionary spending but there can be a balance reached.
     
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