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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Zelenskyy could pick up quickly the strong man dick energy coming from Vance and Trump.

    That was so cringe to watch- the President and VP parade Zelenskyy in front of the cameras in an attempt to attack him and make a “power play” and all it did was make Trump and Vance look like small ****ed cowards.
     
  2. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    NATO was killed today. By design. The post WWII order is done. The American century is over, twenty years short. The US is now a pariah state (and soon to be a plague state). What comes next is unknown, but it will undoubtedly include some bad outcomes. Some very, very bad outcomes.

    We are all about to relearn some painful lessons.
     
  3. HTM

    HTM Member

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    The United States and Ukraine are not allies.
     
  4. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    It's crazy how many Russian nutlickers there are.
     
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  5. HTM

    HTM Member

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    What are the painful lessons Americans about to learn?

    Childish fear mongering.
     
  6. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Nothing to do with legal agreements. This is our word at stake. If we can’t give assurances to what we sign then our words are meaningless. No one will trust us and dictators around the world will now know we will not do anything to stop them. The world is less stable because of it
     
    #17746 AleksandarN, Feb 28, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2025
    Patience, JeffB and astros123 like this.
  7. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Delusional. Trump isn't afraid of China. Hes jealous that XI can be a dictator and he can't. He envious of XI and will capitulate to him in minutes.

    Its funny how some people still think Trump is a china hawk. It's all propaganda and he'll sell out Taiwan just like he did with UKR.
     
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  8. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  9. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    Very true and is really sad, but not hard to predict what comes next. Every hegemony goes down fighting. What that looks like given the US is a nuclear power is going to cost the whole world.

    Also, I would prefer the US be the hegemony over China, Russia, or India. Someone is going to absorb that space. My preference is the status quo, people don't know what it's like to live under fascists. It's not good!!!!
     
  10. HTM

    HTM Member

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    You literally said "we signed a treaty guaranteeing Ukraine's Security" - that's simply untrue.

    The Budapest memorandum was carefully drafted exactly not to do that.

    The American people aren't responsible for making sure nothing bad happens to anyone in the world. That's bullshit.
     
  11. HTM

    HTM Member

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    What do you want the United States to do for the Kurds? Go to war with Iraq/Turkey/Iran and Syria to give them a State? What did Biden do for the Kurds?

    The sanctimony falls apart once real and practical considerations have be considered.
     
  12. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    Just watched this lol, it was great....... Still laughing, love Trump..... We aren't your personal ATM anymore, gtfo....... Ceasefire or stfu.......
     
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  13. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  14. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    How can you blame Zelenskyy for not trusting Putin in a peace deal? The biggest question is why Trump trusts Putin, a known liar? Either Trump is gullible as hell and stupid as a rock, or he doesn't give a damn what Putin does. After all, Trump has shown many times over the years that he idolizes and respects that lying dictator more than his fellow Americans who have good reasons not to.

    Now you have MAGA folks who believe pathological lying Trump is some kind of strongman and American hero, when he's nothing but a Putin loving wannabe dictator who uses the same type propaganda and lies with his supporters. It's nauseating to watch Americans cheer for a man who spits on Democratic values, and aligns more with men like Putin than other Western world countries Putin despises.

    Just an excerpt from a lengthy article....

    Why The Kremlin Lies: Understanding Its Loose Relationship With the Truth

    Russian leaders have used deception for strategic ends in ways that shed light on their geopolitical goals

    One of the stickiest challenges for Western governments has been how to deal with, or even understand, a Russian leadership that lies insistently and incessantly, even when it doesn’t need to.

    The Kremlin continues to mask its intentions in a torrent of falsehoods. Senior Russian officials claim that Russian military forces pose no threat to Ukraine while inventing apparent pretexts for a potential invasion—such as accusing Ukrainians of “genocide” and claiming that U.S. military contractors are deploying chemical weapons to the Donbas. The thuggish nature of the Kremlin’s demands and threats undercuts the hand of any Western officials who might want to engage with Moscow. What is the point of talking with a counterpart who has such blatant disregard for the truth?

    The Kremlin, for its part, appears to expect that its messages and motivations are clear enough. It doesn’t seem terribly bothered that its reliance on brazen lies leads interlocutors to doubt that anything it says can be trusted. Still, knowing what Moscow is trying to communicate with its various uses and abuses of the truth is important as the West contends with the very real threat of a large-scale Russian military operation in Ukraine. Like it or not, Western policymakers simply do not have the luxury of throwing up their hands and tuning out everything the Kremlin is saying.

    The Russian leadership’s frequent resorting to transparent lies, known in Russian as vranyo, has been widely analyzed. The Kremlin lies even though it either expects or doesn’t care that others see through such deception. It lies to deflect blame for outrages in which its role has been exposed, such as the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 over Ukraine in July 2014, the poisoning of former Russian military intelligence officer Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the city of Salisbury in the UK in March 2018, or the assassination attempt on opposition leader Alexei Navalny in Russia in August 2020. Russian officials lie to deflect blame from their allies and proxies too, like when they insisted that evidence of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s use of chemical weapons was utter nonsense and blamed Assad’s opponents instead.

    The Kremlin also uses transparent lies to project brazenness at home and abroad. The lies enhance its powers of intimidation and demonstrate that Moscow sets its own rules. The attempted killing of the Skripals sent unmistakable messages to other would-be Russian intelligence service renegades and members of the elite. Trying to kill Navalny with an advanced nerve agent and then absurdly blaming Germany conveyed disdain both for Germany and for other aspiring opponents of the Russian leadership: not only can the regime kill you, it will mock you when it tries to.

    Similarly, transparent lying is a way for the Kremlin to troll Western elites and turn the tables on them for supposed hypocrisy, policy mistakes, and attempts to impose their values on others. On such occasions, the Kremlin appears to be inviting its domestic supporters and foreign sympathizers to join in on the joke.

    https://carnegieendowment.org/resea...its-loose-relationship-with-the-truth?lang=en
     
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  15. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    If he was afraid of China why are pushing out trading partners and close allies with tariffs. You might as well tell them to trade with China instead of America.
     
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  16. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Then I corrected myself. Again sign what I said after you didn’t reply back because you have nothing. Our word is meaningless.
     
  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I was thinking more about our puppet governments in Vietnam, Afghanistan and elsewhere that we abandoned when we got tired of them, to say nothing of our NATO allies that we've been threatening instead of supporting.
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    NATO isn't dead - it's just that Donald Trump and the Republican Party switched sides, lost the Cold War, and joined the Warsaw Pact
     
  19. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    He's not afraid of China. He's envious of XI and wants to be a dictator just like him
     
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  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    The US military is going to become a shambles soon anyway - part of our militarys value was in the fact that it had a code of honor, and when it broke that code ( My Lai, Abu Ghraib) it was considered a major stain.

    Now the idea of Trumpism/MAGA - who appointed a white supremacist drunken wife beater to destroy the military - is to turn it into a crappy protection racket for suppressing internal dissent - much like the Russian military.

    We all saw how well that works on the battlefield in Ukraine as we enter year 4 of the 3 day special military operation.

    America abroad is now a bad sick joke, the rest of the world will now treat us as such, it's going to be a big shock for those of us who grew up in a different world.
     
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