This is not a black and white issue. Who knows what Putin will actually do? We do know what Putin wants to do, if his public statements are any clue. Putin wants to get the USSR band back together. What should the US do? Ukraine aint in NATO, but many of our NATO partner countries freaked the **** out when Putin invaded Ukraine. The US under Biden decided to send arms to Ukraine and to lead NATO toward giving assistance. This seems to be a reasonable response by the US. We sent Ukraine arms that we were decommissioning and no troops. Going forward, NATO sans the US will need to keep assisting Ukraine, in order to keep Putin off their doorstep. If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't. If Russia does defeat Ukraine, several thigs are guaranteed to happen. First, Europe will have to absorb Ukrainians fleeing their country. Second, the chances that Putin or his successor will attack Poland, the Baltics, Romania, and Hungry increase. Even if the US abandons NATO, the countries that remain will have to deal with that chaos and instability. And they may decide that Article 5 still applies, if it comes to that. Agreed that they are problematic. BTW what is going on in Ukraine ... right now ... is not a future war. Anything, that the US and Europe does to end the war as soon as possible, is to be applauded.
Historian Stephen Kotkin has been a well spoken advocate of Ukraine. Most of my good takes here is influenced by him. ...you not only have to win the war, you have to win the peace, which is the hard part. We lost the war in Vietnam and arguably we won the peace. It's one of the most pro-American countries in the world - Vietnam - and it's going to become closer and closer to us over time whether we deserve this or not. We can argue about the history and how we got there. So you can even lose the war and win the peace. But you can of course win the war and lose the peace. And so the question that becomes - how do you define Victory? What is winning the peace look like for Ukraine?
Once Europe developes this . . . . I wonder what their Stance toward America will be now that they don't NEED the U S Rocket River
After all these years - I don't see how you can have such a large blind spot. Russia is the aggressor and has been the aggressor all along with Putin in power. No one has attacked Russia. No one has threatened to attack Russia. This has been Putin invading Ukraine repeatedly. You are like an abused spouse making every possible excuse, no matter how convoluted - "not involving American lives". I am sorry, but do you believe the USA or anyone is MAKING the Ukrainians fight to keep their country from being taken over by Russia?
Half of it definitely is. If we rolled over to the OG Kim and the CCP, then no phones, OLEDs, and other cheap stuff for us. Korea has been worth it because despite having a two bit terrorist in Kim, the only reason he has any sort of leverage is because of the value countries like Japan, S. Korea, and Taiwan returned when the US propped them up with its nuclear umbrella. Also it's easy to point failures of any decision. Literally same thing happened in Georgia when the West rolled over to Putin. Is Georgia a success? Literally same thing happened in Moldova when the West rolled over to Putin. Is Moldova a success? Literally same thing happened in Tibet when the West rolled over to the CCP. Is Tibet a success? Literally same thing happened in Hong Kong when Trump rolled over to the CCP. Will Hong Kong still be a success?
You've missed the point. The Vietnam war ended just like the Korean war. The only reason why Vietnam is considered a failure is because their government fell 2 years later while South Korean didn't. The US didn't lose the Vietnam War military wise.
Russia provides no value to the US. the only reason to be friendly to them is because they have nukes. They aren't an economic partner like China, Korea, Taiwan, or Japan. They aren't a cultural partner like Canada. They don't share a border like Mexico. They don't have commo history like France or the UK. The only reason we deal with them are because of nukes and they give billions to a bunch corrupt politicians. I'm guessing they are also blackmailing some others.
90% watch only mainstream news if any any aside from crime weather, sports and pharamceutical ads. Except for recently with Fox dissenting a bit the mainstream media all agree Putin and Russia are 100% evil and wrong and like Hitler/Stalin. It is similarly to when probably more than 81% believed in Dubya's folly and WMD in Iraq.
I have seen a lot of the centrist Dems and Republicans talk glowingly of how we can weaken Russia without losing US lives. Such a bargain
There's a reason most people prefer to avoid right wing media and news. It's a mix of hate spewing, lies, and conspiracy theories. Trump is trying now to control what everyone reads and listens to as far as news. He wants to control the type language and content of mainstream news, weather, and news reporting. It's the type of stuff evil Dictators do.
Okay then enlighten me with the sources I need to be exposed to in order to understand the "full truth." I've read Lenin and Marx back in college. I've read the Federalist Papers. I've reach Nietzsche. I've watched FoxNews. I've watched The Young Turks. I listed to Thom Hartmann all the time. Like what do you guys that say this stuff want us to be exposed to in order to have this enlightened worldview that we are missing??? Blow my mind. Tell me what I'm missing that you have please?
The point of fighting in Vietnam was to prevent the formation of a communist government there. They got one. So we failed.
Youre wasting your time and energy with @glynch . Hes a far left tankie whos entire ideology revolves around being anti America. According to him Hamas has the right to attack Israel cuz they are under occupation but Ukraine doesn't have the right to fight off Russian aggression even though Ukraine borders are recognized by the UN lol. Rule of thumb in life. If your far right and far left agree on something @Commodore @glynch its most likely a really really bad idea like they do in this scenario.
https://kyivindependent.com/breaking-kyiv-washington-reach-agreement-on-minerals-deal/ Ukraine has reached an agreement with the U.S. on a minerals deal, Olha Stefanishyna, Ukraine’s deputy prime minister and justice minister, told the Financial Times on Feb. 25. President Volodymyr Zelensky's office confirmed to the Kyiv Independent that an agreement has been reached. The negotiations around the deal have fueled tensions between U.S. President Donald Trump and Zelensky in the past week. The Financial Times reported that Ukraine has secured more favorable terms during the negotiations and is framing the deal as a way to strengthen ties with the U.S. Ukraine's Cabinet of Ministers is expected to recommend on Feb. 26 that the deal be signed, sources familiar with the discussions told Bloomberg. Zelensky will likely head to Washington for a signing ceremony in the coming weeks, according to the Financial Times. The signing could come as early as Feb. 28, a senior Ukrainian official reportedly told AFP. Trump told reporters later on Feb. 25 that Zelensky will visit the White House for a signing ceremony on Feb. 28.
We threatened to cut off all communication to Ukraine in the middle of a war. It's not like they had a choice. We held them hostage at gun point
I am not a fan of labels and I usually use them as a pejorative. That said, I respect people who are principled in their beliefs, even if I disagree. I understand you're a socialist, which is nothing like the modern Democrat party.
