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The state of the democratic party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Honestly so what? They are corny. Elon is legit trying to destroy the country. Why do you have so much faith in him? Why do you think he or Trump cares about you? I care about you man, and I care about me. At this rate everything is going to go down the toilet.
     
  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://www.wsj.com/opinion/democra...cy-policy-5a87dd80?mod=hp_opin_pos_2#cxrecs_s

    Democrats Ought to Love DOGE
    If you want effective government, how could you object to a leaner bureaucracy?
    By Matthew Hennessey
    Feb. 12, 2025 at 12:30 pm ET

    Elon Musk’s glorious rampage through official Washington is like something from a dream. Many conservatives and some Republicans have fantasized for decades about laying off bureaucrats and shrinking the government. Nobody’s ever pulled it off.

    Even Ronald Reagan, the great apostle of smaller government, couldn’t achieve in eight years what Mr. Musk has done in 3½ weeks. The billionaire businessman is less apostle than avenging angel. The Department of Government Efficiency is the change we’ve been waiting for.

    Naturally, Democrats and progressives are outraged. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer accuses Mr. Musk of running an illegal “shadow government” staffed by a “secret squad of company men.” Some are even calling it a coup. But no coup ever made a buyout offer to the deposed.

    The left’s DOGE-inspired hysteria is silly—a political blunder. Donald Trump’s campaign promise in 2024 was explicit: Elect me and I’ll hand Mr. Musk a broom to clean out the Augean stables of the administrative state. Voters said, “OK boys, get after it.” I’m no political scientist, but I’m pretty sure that’s the opposite of a coup.

    During the Obama years Democrats sold the American people on a brand of progressivism that was smart, confident and precise. Critics called it smirking and detached, but still, the left developed a reputation for keeping its cool. When things went wrong progressives turned to their allies in the media to excuse, to explain, to soothe. It worked well. They should have stuck by it.

    In 2016 the Democrats’ sangfroid went out the window—along with their everlasting commitment to change for change’s sake. Mr. Trump’s success turned them into the Chicken Little party. They run around all day shouting that the sky is falling. When are they going to realize that Americans are exhausted by this screeching? Unless you think the U.S. Agency for International Development hangs the stars, the sky ain’t going nowhere.

    The idea that the federal government is big and unwieldy isn’t new and shouldn’t be controversial. The job of bringing it down to size was always going to be a dirty one. Somebody was going to have to do it eventually, or Washington might have collapsed of its own weight and slumped into the Potomac. Thanks to DOGE, Democrats and progressives are off the hook. They should be elated.

    Once upon a time they might have been. The original Progressives believed in good government. They sought to build up a bureaucracy that worked for the people and not for entrenched special interests. In the early 20th century, their big enemy was the trusts—corporate monopolies that, according to Teddy Roosevelt and friends, didn’t serve the public interest.

    These days power isn’t concentrated in private business but in the bloated administrative state. Federal regulators act as judge, jury and executioner. The Justice Department plays politics. The Energy Department tries to strangle the oil-and-gas industry. The Labor Department makes it hard to hire workers. As we’ve learned in recent weeks, some federal employees believe they are accountable to no one but themselves, or perhaps the unions that represent them.

    Smart progressives should have realized this couldn’t go on. Some air needed to come out of the balloon. If Democrats had any brains, they’d sit back and let it happen. At some point they’ll regain the White House. If DOGE is even moderately successful, the next Democratic president will inherit a leaner bureaucracy, less plagued by waste, fraud and abuse.

    Wouldn’t it be nice not to have to defend drag shows in developing countries as an essential tool of American soft power? Mr. Trump says he’ll even let DOGE audit the Pentagon—a longstanding item on the progressive wish list. Maybe the Air Force will finally have that bake sale.

    If Democrats got behind DOGE it might allow them to shed their image as the party of gummy government. In November, voters tried to send them a message: Your priorities are out of whack. We’re tired of diversity preferences and quotas. Give us a federal workforce filled with the best people, not stunt casting. Stop trying to force boys into girls’ sports and start filling potholes. If Mr. Schumer’s reaction to DOGE is any indication, that message has yet to land.

    Politics feels screwy these days. From trade and free speech to foreign policy, people on both teams are shooting at what used to be their own nets. The Trump-aligned right pushes for change while the Democratic left stands guard over the status quo. Big government now, big government tomorrow, big government forever!

    Sometimes it makes you wonder who’s really a conservative and who’s really a progressive. One thing that never fails is the patellar reflex—both parties’ knees jerk in opposition to whatever the other does. But left and right should share a desire for government efficiency. It’s as unobjectionable as liberty and as essential as justice. Nobody who wants America to succeed could possibly be against it.

    Mr. Hennessey is the Journal’s deputy editorial features editor.



     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Honestly I'm sure quite a few corporate Democrats wouldn't mind a privatized federal government. Far more grift opportunities.
     
  4. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    If someone voted for Trump, they did vote for the dumbest candidate. Why do you think they are asking to raise the debt ceiling??? What do you think the tax cuts are going to do??? They are already talking about cutting Medicaid, do you think any of the "cuts" they are making actually put a real dent into the deficit, they dont.

    Bro please listen to reason, you are not making sense.
     
  5. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    I don't think Trump cares about me, I do think Trump is a prideful man that will stop at nothing to be regarded as a great president. I think his goals for having a better economy is not for Salvy and HP3 to have better lives but for him to be remembered as the president that "saved" the U.S economy. Does that benefit me and you? Yes it does...

    I'm not against DOGE pushback from Democrats, the problem is that instead of implementing certain parameters that could stop Musk from abusing his power they have set their crosshairs on stopping it all together. DOGE in essence is not a bad idea, on paper its fantastic. We should want this from our country, accountability and transparency. All of a sudden thou the people against it thou are Democrats, why? Is it not suspicious at all?
     
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    How many venture capitalist tech bros does Kamala have at her wings looking over her shoulder?

    Trump is surrounded by modern geniuses:D
     
    HP3 likes this.
  7. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    I dont think Dems like screeching about this though, they are screeching because its a real problem. Change can be good, but change can be bad too.
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    If DOGE was a good idea then you wouldn't care for Musk having restrictions.

    When you say you wouldn't mind Musk having restrictions you are self admitting that you understand Musk isn't doing this out of good faith. If he was doing this out of good faith in terms of saving American tax dollars then you would not care if Musk had sincere intentions. Sincere intentions wouldn't require restraints. Restraint implies you think Musk will do stuff for his own interest and not for the American public.

    There is nothing good about DOGE. DOGE doesn't exist to audit spending. A bunch of 20-25 year old groypers who have no accounting experience aren't going to discover massive fraud in 3 days.

    When you understand what the actual purpose of DOGE is, then all these actions make more sense. And the actual purpose of DOGE is transferring public tax money into private equity so people like Andressen, Musk, Altman, Theil, Bezos, Zuck can increase their wealth and power.

    Like I'm going to be upfront here with you. If you think Musk isnt doing this and instead is "cutting spending" then you are as naive as a child believing their dead pet goldfish is going to heaven after they flush it down the toilet.

    The United States Federal government is about to be replaced with the PayPal Mafia. PayPal Mafia is our new government.
     
  9. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    The U.S economy was doing better than everyone else even under Biden. Inflation was crappy because of Covid Bro do you know the last 10 of the 11 recessions we had were under a Republican President. Democrats ARE better for the economy. Trump is BAD for the economy. His first term he didnt do well. I can tell you honestly if you will just give me a chance bro.

    HE CAN DO HIS AUDITS WHY IS HE NOT GOING THROUGH CONGRESS TO DO IT. That is the problem here, he's just doing it and telling you he found fraud. He's employing 19-20 year old coders not accountants to do this "audit", its ridiculous.

    Am I not making sense? Why dont you trust me? I have no reason to lie to you. Only you and the rest of us have to gain.
     
  10. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    I think the purported ideals behind what Elon is doing sounds FANTASTIC on paper.

    His behind the desk interview sounded good at face value, and I don't give a sh*t that he's standing behind a desk or that T-dog lets him talk.


    The execution though is crucially important, as of now, has looked more than shaky, and the reality of the situation, and outcomes are yet to be seen. Why anybody is suggesting I ought to love such uncertainty, or have such faith in mere words, sounds like a religious proposition.

    "some of the things I say will be incorrect" - let's see how many, and then we can judge.
     
    HP3 likes this.
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Are you implying the intentions of Musk are in good faith but the execution might be bad?

    Like come on dude. How many phishing scams have fallen victim to? Have you ever fell victim to a MLM?
     
  12. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    How much are eggs?
     
  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Maybe I came off too harsh so I'll just explain what is actually happening.

    The tech billionaire class is trying to privatize the federal government as in public tax money is going to be owned by private equity to bolster the power and wealth of Anderssen, Musk, Bezos, Theil etc.

    The goal is to replace the federal government with the PayPal Mafia. I suggest you look up Curtis Yarvin.
     
  14. CrixusTheUndefeatedGaul

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    Dumb freaking post. Biden was a vegetable with dementia and the economy sucked under his administration.
     
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Op-ed has a very glass half full approach...

    Dems are rightfully howling at the admin slashing and burning watchdog agencies and accountability groups. Trump learned a deep lesson during covid not to bother counting the infected. Couple that with Elon and Vivek telegraphing how they'd make doge effective (in a WSJ op/Ed no less) by exactly gutting those agencies in favor of no-holds-barred dog-eat-dog (or peasant) corporatism, the average bleeding heart is now showing signs of late stage Ebola.

    I do agree they should save their spit on vanity projects like USAID despite the legitimate work lost because our cultural momentum is more inward with the mindset of scarcity.

    I'm more in the wait and see camp because the debt issue is incredibly complex and all the analysts before day one were smugly chuckling at how doge could squeeze blood from a turnip without touching third rail entitlements.

    I used to deal with handling or overcoming institutional inertia at work until I got sick of it but there is merit at letting things fail and seeing if it's worth it or painful enough to pick it back up, dust it off and make it whole again.

    Voters knew about Elon's rants about "pain and hardship" during those Trump rallies. They were mostly aware of project 2025, courtesy of Dem adverts.

    Either they chose that pain to fix the Swampy deficit or they'll have a rude awakening and reexamine what liberalism means to them.

    I hope Dems have a better message by then. An identity built solely on being a resistance party is exhausting and the opposite of being forward looking in the face of adversity. Voters will reject the lip service and "do-nothing progressivism" masked as decriminalization or normalization of social decay. I think it's starting to happen in California but they might tilt further leftward because Trump needs a foil to antagonize in order galvanize his base.
     
  16. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    If you cant provide evidence, then why quote me. The guy in your avatar's word clearly means more to you than anyone else
     
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    ‘Obama Bros’ admit they should’ve done ‘some of the stuff’ Trump is doing with DOGE

    https://nypost.com/2025/02/12/us-ne...e-some-of-the-stuff-trump-is-doing-with-doge/

    excerpt:

    Former aides to President Barack Obama admitted on an episode of “Pod Save America” they should have done “some of the stuff” President Donald Trump is doing with the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE).

    When discussing DOGE’s initiatives to cut federal spending, the “Obama Bros” admitted to “lamenting” their situation.

    Jon Lovett, a former Obama speechwriter, implied he “didn’t know” they could make government so efficient.

    “Honestly, some of this is pretty annoying because it’s some of the stuff we should’ve done. We didn’t know you could do some of this,” Lovett said.
    more at the link
     
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  18. CrixusTheUndefeatedGaul

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    You and your tribe never needed any evidence because you’re bunch of liars.
    You got your clock cleaned on this last election because the American people were really sick and tired of your lies.
    You have no argument and your tribe will be irrelevant politically for years to come.
    And that is great for America.
    Loser!
     
  19. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    No, I’m honestly not sure where you got that impression.

    I’m (trying) the to imply that the intentions reported to the public sound good, but the reality behind the actions taking place is a mystery, to me, as of today. The execution, as so of far, is not a total mystery, and looks at best, shaky, in accordance to the purported ideals behind the actions.

    I have my own suspicions but those aren’t of much value, because who the fck am I, right?
     
  20. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    I dont understand why you have to be so combative, Im just trying to talk to you. But if its just to call me names, why do this man? I have no real hatred towards you. What have Democrats done to you to make you so pissed off?
     

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