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DOGE The Eschaton

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Nov 13, 2024.

  1. tinman

    tinman Member
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  2. FranchiseBlade

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    Great video but I'm going to wait to see what a guest on Joe Rogan has to say before making up my mind. I'm no sheep.
     
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  3. Salvy

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  4. tinman

    tinman Member
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    cml750 and basso like this.
  5. tinman

    tinman Member
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  6. basso

    basso Member
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  7. Commodore

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  8. tinman

    tinman Member
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    @Salvy
    @ROXRAN
     
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  9. Commodore

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  10. Commodore

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    #330 Commodore, Feb 8, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2025
  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://reason.com/2025/02/07/will-elon-musk-cut-as-much-government-as-al-gore-did/

    Will Elon Musk Cut as Much Government as Al Gore Did?
    In the early 1990s, Bill Clinton's administration set out to "reinvent" government. What can the mercurial Tesla CEO learn from their efforts?
    JOE LANCASTER | 2.7.2025 12:15 PM

    After winning a return to the White House, President Donald Trump tapped Tesla CEO Elon Musk to head the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), a body tasked with making the government less costly and more efficient.

    It is an arduous and unenviable task. It is also not the first such endeavor: In the 1990s, then–Vice President Al Gore undertook a similar effort. What can we learn from Gore's experience?

    As president, Bill Clinton famously declared that "the era of big government is over." Weeks into his term, Clinton had announced "a national performance review" (NPR) to "reinvent" government. He put Gore in charge of the project, which was later codified into law by the Government Performance and Results Act of 1993.

    A dedicated website said the NPR initiative—later renamed the National Partnership for Reinventing Government—would make government "work better, cost less, and get results American [sic] care about."

    The NPR issued its first report in September 1993, From Red Tape to Results: Creating a Government That Works Better and Costs Less. It listed 1,200 recommendations across the entire government that, if implemented, it said could save $108 billion in five years ($235 billion in 2024 dollars).

    "If we follow these steps, we will move much closer to a government that costs less and works better for all of us," the report concluded. "It will be leaner, more effective, fairer, and more up-to-date. It will be a government worth what we pay for it….And perhaps the federal debt—that $4 trillion albatross around the necks of our children and grandchildren—will slow its rampage."

    Elaine Kamarck, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution who worked as an adviser to Gore at the time, touted the NPR's accomplishments in testimony before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform in 2013: "We reduced the federal workforce by 426,200 between January 1993 and September 2000," she said, "making the federal government in 2000 the smallest government since Dwight D. Eisenhower was president" while also "yielding $136 billion in savings to the taxpayer."

    The government did cut its workforce during the Clinton years, with the overall number of federal employees falling from 3.09 million in January 1993 to 2.75 million in September 2000—suggesting that Kamarck's cited cuts outpaced hiring. Donald Kettl, a Brookings Institution scholar who studied the NPR at the time, told a Senate subcommittee in May 2000 that while some agencies shrank substantially during Clinton's tenure, "three cabinet departments have grown: Commerce (especially to manage the census); State (to cope with international pressures); and Justice (to increase the number of guards at federal prisons)."

    Those cuts also weren't across the board: "Since 1993, the reduction in the executive branch workforce, not counting the U.S. Postal Service, amounts to approximately 400,000 jobs," Stephen Barr wrote in The Washington Post in October 2000. "The downsizing was fueled by the post-Cold War base closings and budget cuts at the Defense Department, where about 70 percent of the civil service cuts took place."

    A 1999 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report expressed skepticism about the claimed savings. "NPR claimed savings from agency-specific recommendations that could not be fully attributed to its efforts," the report found, as the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) "generally did not distinguish NPR's contributions from other initiatives or factors that influenced budget reductions at the agencies we reviewed."

    The GAO also "identified two instances where OMB counted at least part of the estimated savings twice," including two recommendations that constituted "potentially up to $1.4 billion in estimated savings" on their own.

    Still, there have certainly been more profligate presidencies. During Clinton's tenure, the amount of federal debt held by the public barely budged, rising from $3.3 trillion to $3.4 trillion. The government even ran budget surpluses for several years, contributing hundreds of billions of dollars toward paying down the debt.

    Can Musk and Trump achieve that much? It would be a hard lift.

    Asked before the 2024 election how much he thought he could cut from the federal budget—which currently tops $6.8 trillion—Musk replied, "I think we could do at least $2 trillion."

    Such a cut would be difficult, but not impossible: The 2019 federal budget totaled $4.4 trillion ($5.4 trillion in 2024 dollars). Even adjusting for inflation, Congress could cut $2 trillion and spend only $700 billion less in constant dollars than it did before the COVID-19 pandemic.

    But Musk walked back his prediction after the election, admitting in January that it was just "the best-case outcome" and that "I think if we try for $2 trillion, we've got a good shot at getting 1." In a post this week on X, the social media platform he owns, Musk said he was "cautiously optimistic" he would reach his goal of $4 billion per day in savings from the budget for fiscal year 2026, which would reduce the deficit from $2 trillion to $1 trillion.

    The GOP hasn't been much help: Although entitlements are the biggest deficit drivers, the 2024 Republican platform pledged to "FIGHT FOR AND PROTECT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE WITH NO CUTS, INCLUDING NO CHANGES TO THE RETIREMENT AGE." There is similarly no guarantee that Republicans can simply grow the economy enough to outweigh the deficit.

    One tactic Musk has adopted is buyout-style offers to federal workers. That, as it happens, is one area where there are direct lessons from the Al Gore experience.

    Last week the U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) sent a mass email to federal employees with a "deferred resignation offer." Anyone who accepted the offer could, it said, resign immediately but enjoy full pay and benefits through the end of September. (The email listed February 6 as the deadline, but a judge has since delayed it until February 10. ABC reports that 40,000 employees have accepted the offer so far.) There has been a fair amount of confusion around the proposal, as when OPM sent the message to air traffic controllers but then clarified that they weren't actually eligible for the deal.

    The NPR, similarly, offered federal workers "the lesser of $25,000 or the amount of the employee's severance pay" to resign. "There was an effort to reduce the number of middle-level managers. In general, however, the downsizing occurred as a result of individual employees' responses to the buyout the government offered," Kettl said in 2000. "There is little knowledge about the resulting skill mix of the federal workforce. There was little advance planning of what skill mix the federal government needs for the future." Put more bluntly, there was little assurance that they got rid of the deadweight and kept the people with the best skills.

    Setting aside such specific lessons of the Clinton-era effort, the NPR at least offers us an informal benchmark: If Elon Musk can't bring big government under control, can he at least reduce it as much as Al Gore?


     
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  12. adoo

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    the intellectually dishonest of "reason", ignoring that

    Ronald Reagan Was The First POTUS To Tried to Re-invent / Shrink The Federal Government

    in the 1980s, Reagan was a popular 2-term POTUS, often referred to as the father of the modern GOP; but the size of Gov / Budget deficit grew during his tenure.


    his successor, team Clinton set out to reinvent gov't


    clinton admin has been the only post-WW2 admin to generated a budget surplus

    [​IMG]
     
    #332 adoo, Feb 8, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2025
  13. tmacfor35

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    It’s time for Americans to unite against its own government. These dems and republicans are getting rich off our money. Don’t be a bug to the light when democrats in congress are whining about Doge. They are doing it because they are complicit. I hope it gets deep enough where we can put these sickos in jail forever. Dems/republicans. Income tax needs to be deleted until the corruption ends.
     
  14. adoo

    adoo Member

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    The clinton admin has been the only post-WW2 admin to have generated a budget surplus

    [​IMG]

    "The US Gov;t went from a $5.6 trillion surplus that George W Bush inherited to
    over ... $11-plus trillion debt when W left office."
     
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  15. Sajan

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    Man how does this guy find time to work for free for the government when he is the CEO of 10+ companies.

    Thank you Elon. You have a good heart.
     
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  16. tinman

    tinman Member
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  17. Commodore

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  18. Sajan

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    “Hi everyone! I’m recruiting SWEs for Doge. Reach out if interested!” the message reads. “We are looking for skilled software engineers (and ops people) at any career stage who are willing to work for ~6mo in person in DC. Paid. Tons of really ambitious projects in the works. We are going to fix the government!”
    The six-month timeline aligns with the 130-workday limit that special government employees (SGEs) are legally allowed to serve in a single year. Musk himself is currently categorized as an SGE.

    https://archive.is/2025.02.09-072856/https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-doge-recruiting-palantir/


    Hmmm so this should be over in a few months…
     
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  19. Commodore

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    the CIA had JFK killed for less

     
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  20. tinman

    tinman Member
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    lol
    They mad now, Starlink and T-Mobile
     
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