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Offensive Line

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Verbal Christ, Sep 9, 2024.

  1. raining threes

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    Agreed, but the main issue is Scruggs cant stay healthy.
     
    conquistador#11 likes this.
  2. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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  3. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    So, how did the OL outperform its season standard yesterday? What happened?
    Is the San Diego DL just not very good?
     
  4. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

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    Bobby finally figured out that quick slants exist which helped keep us out of 3rd and long situations
     
  5. Blatz

    Blatz Member

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    I liked DeMeco's answer to the sideline reporter at halftime when he was asked the same question, although it was directed at the offense as a whole. He simply said, 'CJ changed'.

    The O-line was still getting fooled on stunts, but CJ started going through his progressions better and taking what the defense gave him. He began getting the ball out faster and opting for some of the shorter options. He also ran when the receivers were covered and he had space.

    A side note about CJ running. I wish he would learn how to slide better.

    Edit: I want to give some credit to the O-line too because they did step up on some of the running plays when they needed a yard.
     
    #725 Blatz, Jan 12, 2025
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2025
  6. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Thanks! I missed that halftime bit. Anytime Mixon can get 100 yards, I think the OL is doing something right.

    In terms of the Bolts, they weren't bad versus the run this year, but that's such a matter of competition and situation too. They gave up 111 yds/game, 9th in the league on that measure.
    https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-defense-rankings-against-the-run

    I guess I desperately want to hope that the Texans O Line can be serviceable and that would really give you a chance versus many other playoff teams.
     
    ROCKSS, conquistador#11 and Blatz like this.
  7. raining threes

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    Those plays have been there all year. CJ just started taking the short stuff instead of always throwing the deep over routes.
     
    vince, ROCKSS, gfab-babyboi and 2 others like this.
  8. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    It was like he flipped a switch after that lucky bounce and hitting X, and then when he went on that 27 yard run, I was like, who the F is this??? Hell of a game by 7 and the O Line............that was a confidence builder for sure
     
  9. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    My memory recall is not what it used to be so its hard for me to compare to last year, but watching the unit live at the game on Saturday and I was left a little stunned by what the system asks of them. So much pulling and trapping. I understand its a component of ZBS, but damn so many times where if there would have been a simple line adjustment by a veteran center for example then plays would gain more yards particularly in the run department. I really think that if we can get a veteran center in here that alone would make a huge difference to the unit as a whole. Would also be great to get a better OL coach in here to simplify the assignments.
     
    Red.Glare and B-Bob like this.
  10. conquistador#11

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    11 pressures in 2 playoff games last season, 19% of the drop backs


    They have allowed 13 in just one game, 33% of the drop backs.
     
    Canadiandude likes this.
  11. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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  12. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Yet we have people running around here talking like Tytus is a problem or that he's overpaid and we need to think about a dead money hit with him? :rolleyes:
     
  13. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    End of season grades

    Tunsil - 76.5 OVR ( 88.6PB/73.6RB)
    Howard - 70.5 (76.2PB/58.9RB)
    Patterson - 61 (69.9PB/54.4RB)
    Scruggs - 63.6 OVR (63 PB/64RB)
    Mason - 62.3 OVR (65.2PB/57.7RB)
    Fisher - 50.4 OVR (48.3PB/49.1RB)
    Kenyon Green - 38.6 OVR (39.7PB/44.6RB)
    Kendrick Green - 47.7 OVR (19.4PB/62.1RB)
     
    J.R. and jch1911 like this.
  14. jch1911

    jch1911 Member

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    Not of this is surprising... but thanks for sharing.

    Now... which sucker GM can we call and get something of value for Kenyon? flipping through imaginary rolodex
     
  15. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    If Caserio can unload Kenyon Green for anything of substance I will convince my daughter to name her next son Nicholas.
     
    jch1911 and houstonstime like this.
  16. Marshall Bryant

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    The single biggest Off season move would be acquiring an elite LG. It just so happens we play one who will be a FA this week. The Chief's Trey Smith is their Starting LG, only 25 to start the 25 season with 2 Lombardi teams. His addition not only gives us an experienced LG, but allows Howard to go back to his far better position at RT.

    Speculative OL with the addition.

    LT - Laremy Tunsil
    LG - Trey Smith
    C - Jarrett Patterson
    RG - Shaq Mason
    RT - Titus Howard

    IOL - Juice Scruggs, Kenyon Green, Kendrick Green, Nick Broeker

    OT - Blake Fisher, Austin Deculus,

    This is an alternative to hoping we can get a solution in the draft and instead solving it by FA acquisition. But this means using the Draft for offensive play-makers instead of addressing those in FA.

    I first suggested this before the regular season KC game, but the need to solve the LG problem hurts the entire OL.

    Just a thought when we start fantasizing about Tee Higgins. If we do the opposite, my preference is drafting Tyler Booker, the LG from Alabama. But this is a risk as all OL are.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  17. raining threes

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    I'm glad Howard moving to OG has helped in pass protection. He's still a liability in the run game. He is a definite upgrade over Green/Scruggs.
     
  18. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    I dont think any of the personnel on the OL are well suited for the ZBS. I think they need to reevaluate how they expect the current room to execute assignments. There is a decent amount of 'talent' in the room, but they are not being maximized.

    Howard sliding in has been a season saver. Even while Fisher is being baptized by fire you can live with that and the outside pressure while applying contingencies. When you are getting wrecked by interior pressure its a wrap.
     
  19. raining threes

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    Ryans needs to find this generations HOF'er Alex Gibbs.
     
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  20. jch1911

    jch1911 Member

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    Years of combine / pro day analysis on OL has led me to some keys for ZBS linemen.

    First, ZBS linemen are mostly the same as other schemes, but ZBS places more focus on agility & explosion (i.e. get out of your stance and get to the spot to open lanes for the ball carrier). Most other schemes prioritize strength, arm length, & explosion - some movement, but not as much.

    The measures are usually:
    1) arm length = 34"+ for tackles (less than 31" = pretty much limited to center) // 32" - 34" for IOL
    2) bench = usually more is better (range is susceptible to arm length b/c of how far you have to move the bar)
    - Not as key for ZBS as long as you can engage a moving target and prevent it from getting to the ball carrier. Leverage is king!
    3) vertical + broad = measure explosion (ZBS linemen usually need 30"+ on vertical & >108" / 9' on broad jump)
    - 10 yard split also helps measure explosion (OL less than 1.77 seconds are exceptional)
    4) shuttle = <4.5 seconds is ELITE (ZBS usually wants 4.6/4.7 or less)
    5) 3-cone = <7.5 seconds is ELITE (ZBS usually wants 7.7/7.8 or less)
    6) obvi size matters (TWSS) so someone like Lane Johnson is a freaking unicorn as were Brandon Brooks & Jason Kelce (notice a pattern here in re: the Eagles OL)
    7) people can improve & their measureables do NOT always matter, but can give you a likelihood of success / reduce your risk

    When you look at our roster:
    - LT Tunsil - didn't perform most exercises in combine, but pretty good explosion & arm length
    - LT Fisher - meh to mid in most areas; good broad jump
    - RT Howard - good vertical, but mid to trash in most other areas; shuttle & 3 cone are esp. troublesome; that being said, he has held his own IRL

    - RG Mason - great numbers, BUT that was when he entered the NFL & pre-injury; hopefully, can regain form
    - LG Kendrick Green - great explosion & speed; just ok agility
    - LG Kenyon Green - just bad; his numbers were bad and his play has been bad; this should have been obvi to everyone involved; his 10 yard split is prolly what many people focused on for a guy his size (good), but his shuttle time was one of the WORST & that usually translates to pass blocking (or a lack thereof) [no 3 cone time]
    - G/T Broeker - meh to mid; good 10 yard split, but appears to be JAG
    - G/C Scruggs - has good vertical & 10 yard split, but his agility is poor (so good run blocker b/c fires off ball, but bad pass blocker b/c agility is bad)
    - G/C Patterson - good 10 yard split, but mid explosion measures & poor agility

    By estimation, BDN was trying to find OL who can work all schemes (ZBS, Gap, Man / Power, etc.). So it looks like he focused on guys with excellent 10 yard split (fire off the ball). But that does you no good when you miss your target & they swim right past you to the QB. The other thing is if the OL is just able to tie up their blocking assignment on a run, you have to have a back that can cut back and avoid the trash (b/c there is no hole to run through, but the DL are other wise occupied).

    That's my quick post in between classes.
     

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