I'm okay with Amen coming off the bench as long as JG is playing well

Yeah this is comical... At best he's much closer to Manu than he'll ever be to Duncan... That's not his upside.

 

Okay, but has there really been players in NBA history with Amen's combination of size athleticism and skill? Giannis is pretty much the closest thing I can think of.

As to Jalen, he's a different story entirely. He's came into the league as a bottom 5 defensive player in the entire league and his entire game hinges on being able to shoot the 3 because it allows him to get to the rim easier when defenders have to take him seriously as a shooter.

That's not the case with Amen since he's MUCH stronger than Jalen could ever dream of being. Amen can play bully ball in the paint where Jalen would just get tossed to the side.

In short, don't compare Amen to guards, realize he's more of a tweener forward with his 8'7 standing reach and his 7'0 wingspan and then factor in that he can basically guard 1-5.....that's something almost no one in the history of the league could ACTUALLY do.

 

I do think he's a better rebounder than Iggy and he's a slightly better shot blocker while Iggy the better at getting steals.... I do think Iggy was the better overall defender, but they're both great there so it's splitting hairs rn... His FG% is higher, but Iggy spent most of his career in Philly playing in the wrong role as a primary option offensively when he would've been best suited in a tertiary role or something like what he ended up playing in GS later in his career... The vast majority of all of Amen's scoring is assisted... He's a role player/beneficiary on offense... He scores in transition on drives and largely away from the primary actions in the halfcourt... From open catch and shoot, getting a pass on a cut to the hoop, or crashing the glass from the weak side and getting a put back... Defenses are geared away from him and he's never the primary focus of the defense... defenders also sag off of him on the perimeter routinely. I don't think he's a better passer than Iggy, but I think he has the potential to be.

Yeah Iggy like Shane Battier are guys who I think were robbed of multiple all defensive teams in their careers.... Regardless I don't think superstar to me has ever been determined by that or all-star selections...Iggy despite the one all-star selection wasn't considered a star by most and was borderline at best. A better version of all that would just be a star.

Superstars are made on the offense.... Even the most elite defensive players in the game aren't superstar level til they become elite offensive players... And I don't see any sign of Amen becoming that with his limitations.

This is something people say, but they really don't understand how vastly unlikely it is for Amen to become an average shooter much less a good one... The amount of guys in league history that come into the league who are bad shooters that become good is extremely small.... Even less guys that come into the league with broken jumpers that become average.

Then we get to ballhandling and it's even less likely for him to significantly improve both much less one of these aspects.... I've mentioned this before so I'll say it again.... 'handles" is a skill that virtually every player has largely developed in their formative years as a hooper before they ever step foot onto an NBA court.... There's a degree of natural ability/feel and 99% of the time the handles you enter the league with don't become markedly better as handles are probably the most difficult skill to acquire or improve in basketball... Significant improvements in dribbling is rarely acquired after a prospect gets into the league just think of all the guys in NBA history you can... In general, if you don't have the handle already, the team is vastly unlikely to allow you to dribble a lot... How many players came into the league without a good handle and eventually developed a good or great handle? Even Giannis and Kawhi who developed tf out of their draft ceiling... had decent dribbling skill as rookies to begin with, but yet still today they both have fairly average handles at best..... Giannis gets by with it cuz he's such a huge explosive physical freak that can overpower and finish over almost every defender.... And Kawhi has never been a primary ball handler... He gets by cuz he's a bucket getter and a three level scorer that doesn't need much of a handle to score effectively or get his shot off... He can score in the post and out of the triple threat.

It's almost a guarantee that Amen isn't gonna improve his handle enough to be primary playmaker.

 

There's other guys you could mention, but it'd be give or take in some aspects in so far as athleticism, size, or skill... Like Simmons or Zion... The main issue that would hold back Amen from becoming a superstar like someone like Giannis is that Giannis at 6'11... his speed and strength with that size is what changes everything... He doesn't need a great handle or much of a jumper(although his is still much better than Amen's) to be effective since he's big enough to overpower the majority of guys at any position.... If Amen was that size I would have a different outlook.

Amen is definitely stronger than Jalen, but Jalen is still finishing at 72% at the rim which is elite... With his shooting from 3 still not being league average.... He does it with speed and creativity while Amen is speed and power strong enough finish through guys in the paint... He still gets most of his buckets inside not from self creation, but from either getting hit on cuts or transition.

I definitely wasn't comparing him to guards defensively... That's about this supposed "superstar potential".

He's a great help defender at any position.... But if you're taking that to say this, then you have to include a bunch of other guys as ones that can "basically guard 1-5".

 

They say a lot of guys can guard 1-5, but it's typically not true, Amen actually can. There's not 5 better defensive players than him in the entire league already. Give him even a half ass jumper and he's potentially going to be in the running for being one of the best players in the history of the game.

Also, there's signs he's coming along with his shot. He's shooting significantly better from every distance on the court compared to last season.

If you remember, I was pretty low on Amen coming out of the random bush league he played in before he was drafted because his shot was so terrible and there was no way to tell if ANYTHING he did playing against those high school rejects would translate. Well, he's done a lot already to quiet those concerns.

Of the players on the Rockets, he has BY FAR the highest ceiling and is currently only behind Sengun.

The only reason to dump on the prospects of him potentially attaining superstardom is if you are just super low on EVERY player on the Rockets and you think they all suck.

 

Iggy the role player, really?.

 

I don’t think you can leave JG and Alperen stranded any longer in the starting lineup.

Amen Thompson needs to be starting and some hard decisions need to be made. I hate it and love it. Everything is coming together.

 

why limit Amen's minutes again?

 

You said I understated, but everything you said here I've said and agree with... there's not much of a midrange game to speak of tho, but I agree.

I think for him to put up a 20+ highly efficient per game... He's going to have to become a much better halfcourt offensive player and develop that jumper significantly... Did you think Ben Simmons was a superstar? Or how about someone like Shawn Marion... He was definitely a "star" and an elite defender that could do a variety of things at a high level as well as being a 20/10 guy racking up double doubles... Absolutely not a superstar though.

Kawhi is and was a three level scorer in his prime and an elite isolation bucket getter... Of course that's a superstar, but that's not in the reasonable conversation of something Amen has a chance of becoming... Jimmy Butler isn't a superstar, but he's had some superstar level performances in a couple postseasons.... And his scoring/shooting jumping to an elite level in certain games has been a big part of that... both those dudes are self creating bucket getters in the halfcourt... I don't see any capability of that from Amen... Heck Tari has a greater chance of that lol not that I'm saying it's gonna happen especially with his health issues, but he's at least shown more in that regard as shooter which shows just how far the degree is in what we're talking about.

It's not really that notable to improve from historically bad to just bad... The sample size is too small to be able to determine any significant improvement... His form is better, but it's still bad... very stiff and just not fluid... I'm not saying it's impossible... It's just extremely unlikely to expect that and just wishful thinking.

Yeah I think he's improved some from a rookie, but that improvement is like from the first 10-20 games or so where I think he was just tentative... I still would say his handle was mediocre his rookie season and it's mediocre now.... It's loose and high pretty often and he has the worst turnover percentage of our top 5 guys who handle it the most.

I definitely don't think he's a finished product, but I think there's a cap on how good he can be offensively.

 

Amen as a starter with an eight-game sample so far is averaging 17pts 11 rebounds and three assists on 64% True shooting right now, a year and a half into his career.

Amen could average near triple-doubles in his career if allowed to develop at PG, with top 5% athletic ability, a high IQ, and elite defense.

Russell Westbrook couldn't shoot and isn't even comparable defensively. I'd have to see how Amen looks as a full time PG to see how his playmaking/passing will compare. But some of the takes on a 22 year old player a year and half into his career are crazy. Some of these guys play 15+ years now at a high level, he's just going to get better with time.

 

He's arguably the best perimeter defender in the league, but he's not a top 5 defensive player...
Wemby, JJJ, AD, Bam, Mobley and more are better off the top. Elite top tier rim protection is still the most valuable defensive attribute and then versatility/switchability or elite help defense.
Best players in the history of the game... bruh why can't people be realistic with these projections.

We're talking a little over 1 3pt attempt per game... He's shooting 24%.... The midrange is also a little over 1 attempt per game at around 37%... There's not anything of note that he's coming along with his shot.... It's bad and the sample size is extremely small.

I wasn't as low on him as you... I actually said before he ever played a game that I thought he would be an Andre Igoudala level player and I still think he'll likely end up around that or as I said 2.0.

I like making accurate/reasonable predictions.... Speaking in hyperbole when analyzing a player and what they can be is silly... And as we know... Superstardom is made on the offensive end.

 

Russ obviously isn't in his stratosphere as a defender, but that's not really an argument.... Russ overall was still much further along as a shooter than Amen... FT/Middy/3pt...
Russ is obviously a better playmaker/passer... Largely cuz Russ has a much better handle than Amen to be a primary facilitator... I wouldn't even say Russ had a particularly great handle, but there's levels.... It's almost a guarantee he won't develop anywhere near the handle or playmaking ability of Russ.... it may sound crazy to you, but 22 year olds don't just develop that ability.

 

Exactly. There’s no other speed and athleticism inthe lineup with Jalen when Jabari is starting. And that forces FVV to be on-ball more and slows the pace of the game for Houston into a halfcourt game which punishes Jalen

 

It depends. Technically I don't care about who starts as long as the person gets the minutes and they close but I promise you the players care. JG is a cost sink. He can play good at times the same way he can string together 10 horrendous games in a row. Keep in mind he is still a significantly below average shooter on the year. We can't have "The guy" be inconsistent like that.

 

I'm assuming you think Sengun is that guy right?

 

True Russ was a better shooter at his age and a better playmaker I agree, he also had around 33 MPG as a full time PG experience, whereas Amen has been playing out of position at forward for two years, at about 23-28 MPG setting screens for the first time in his basketball career. FVV is getting 40 million to start at PG until there is a change.

My ceiling for Amen is 20+ pts 10+ rebounds and perhaps 7+ assists with elite All-NBA or DPOY candidate defense, that's a superstar and a better player than last year's Anthony Edwards in two-way impact imo. He's averaging 3 assists as a starter playing forward right now.

Russ is an example of a freak athlete PG who couldn't shoot and it's not expected he'll reach or surpass him, but to be honest Russ' game would have been better served if he had Amen's high IQ and shot selection. Houston fans can attest to Russ' horrible jump-shot selections over pure drives or attacking the rim, which he finally improved in his short time here.

And I disagree with the idea Amen can't average an efficient 20+ ppg over his career, he's averaging 17 right now as a starter with a high TS% in 8 games, a small sample of course but he will just get better over his career.

Many young players have improved thier handle over thier careers, including Jaylen Brown, Kawhi, Jalen Brunson, and Jimmy Butler, yes to say a 22-year-old can't improve his handle over an NBA career is crazy IMO.

We'll see how he develops over the years as he has to fulfill that potential. But many didn't expect he'd improve his shot from last year as well. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, so we can agree to disagree on this one.