Ya you view fox much differently than i do, i’m not touching those future suns picks for a guy of fox’s caliber.
You are the one who said 3 picks is the reasonable deal right? We have our own picks and swaps dont need to touch the Suns picks. 2025 pick wont be a "Suns pick" by the time Booker is available. We will have to trade or use it before then. Look at our roster Cam can barely get any PT. A low lotto pick would be useless for us unless we can get a consolidation trade aka Fox.
I'm saying that's what a realistic trade would look like, i'm not saying i would do it. I absolutely would not even consider it for a second.
IF FVV isnt going there is no point to this trade. The main reason we keep losing is FVV is scoring at 50% TS and gets the most PT. We need him off the team cuz Ime is obsessed with him and plays him 38 mpg no matter what. If we get Fox and keep FVV whats the point of that? When Fox and FVV play together defense would be horrible and we still have FVV playing 38 mpg at 50% TS. Literally same situation we just traded assets for nothing.
This is a question for everyone that wants Fox, I'm quoting/asking you specifically because you're here but I'm curious just to get a survey, what type of play do yall see Fox as? I'll give you 3 categories - Tier 1 - This is best player on a championship team, and it's a pretty wide range. So this goes all the way from Jokic to Tatum. This is the clear alpha and #1 on a team that is a true championship contender/winner. Tier 2 - This is the second best player on a championship team, but not good enough to be in the first category. Some teams are lucky enough to have two tier1 players (eg Durant and Curry, or Lebron and DWade), so I want to be clear with this category, this is a guy who is a star but is NOT good enough to be the #1 on a championship team. This is a player who is very good, a clear allstar, but not quite good enough to be tier1. So this would be guys like Klay, Middleton, Brown, Kyrie, etc. Tier 3 - Everyone else. Not really worth breaking this down further for this conversation, but this is just a third option for people who say "he's not even good enough to be a #2 on a championship roster." How good do you think Fox is? Do you think Fox is a clear tier1? Maybe a low-end tier1? Is he a middle of the pack tier2? Upper end tier2, or lower end tier2? It seems like people have wildly different views on who he is as a player, and saying stuff like "he's elite" is a bit meaningless to me. Where would you place him given the above labels?
We also have different priorities, i don't care how many games we win this season, it's irrelevant. Our title odds are 0 with or without fox, he doesn't move the needle in a way that i care about. We've massively overachieved so far this season which has been really cool. What matters to me is the rockets in 26-27, 27-28, etc. I think losing 3 of our picks plus 3 of our young assets hurts the team long term massively.
Fox is imo tier 2. He and Sengun and Amen are all tier 2s and we can win via committee and with a deep roster and bench. Think Celtics. If we are lucky, Sengun and Amen break out and now we have 2 superstars and a star in Fox. Again pretty similar to Celts with Tatum.
I agree with you but sitting on our assets without consolidation will hurt us in the long term. For example FVV's unguaranteed contract is an asset and the picks next year is an asset. Tari's 3M is an asset. If you hold on too long we lose value on those assets. We can end up waiting for nothing. Time moves on and these assets lose value due to depreciation. You cant just keep hoarding these assets waiting for the perfect guy to come along. Even Booker who is supposed the dream target is having a bad year and even injured already. There might not be that perfect target available for us.
Yes, we could end up waiting for nothing, absolutely. If that happens, we will never contend for a title. I think a trade for fox almost guarantees that you will never contend though, as having the 25th best player or whatever he is on a 30% max is really hard to overcome, unless you have a top 2-3 player in the league which we will not. I'm willing to risk ending up with nothing over giving up on this run for some instant gratification. I'll give you an example, the Rudy trade. They made a WCF which was cool, but long term that trade REALLY hurt them. I would never have made a deal like that, it's the opposite of what i believe in.
Rudy is not an asset, he is a liability. Our situation is different from the Wolves, Wolves are already paying Ant and Towns the max, thats why adding Gobert hurt them cuz thats 3 maxes. Our situation we dont even have a max. Why does getting Fox mean we dont contend? You realize we are 2nd in defense and 10th in offense? If we get Fox and boost our offense to top 5 we will be on par with the best team in the league. Here's a counter situation how about when Lebron trades Lakers future for Anthony Davis? People said AD wasnt worth Lonzo Ball, BI, Jason Hart, the 4rth lotto pick and all the picks and swaps. What happened? All those picks and swaps are just trash and AD is worth all those combined and more. These picks and swaps the reality is chances are they wont turn into anything useful. Brickpard is the best example. We picked him top 3 and he turns into a total scrub. Thats just a blown asset.
We don't have lebron......and when the wolves made the trade ant wasn't making the max. We have 2 players making 20% of the cap and multiple players who will soon be making that or more with jabari and amen. The davis trade was fine because 1. they had lebron and 2. davis was a top 10 player and made them a contender, fox is not close to that level and will not make us a contender.
We dont have Lebron but we have the 3rd seed and thats with FVV bricking at 50% TS. If we replace him with 57% TS Fox yes thats a contender. Lebron is 40 bro. He aint relevant anymore. When the wolves made the trade Ant wasnt making the max but clearly he is making the max now thats why Kat got traded. 2 players making the cap so 40%? Add Fox so 70%? 30% is enough to pay Jabari and Amen. Because the cap is different from the luxury tax. Luxury tax is like 120% of the cap. And then the cap is also increasing by 10% every year. Look if you still dont agree we just dont see eye to eye on this. I feel like I have made the best arguments for a Fox trade if you still dont agree lets just drop since it doesnt matter what we agree on at the end of the day.
The whole "we're the 3rd seed" attitude is how you end up being the kings. The 8th seed only has 3 more losses than the rockets, and we're closer to 12th than 1st technically. If we get fox and upgrade the offense and hurt our defense, do you think we are legit title contenders this season? 30% is not enough to pay jabari and amen that's silly.
You are the silly one comparing us to the kings. Whats the proof Fox will hurt the defense? I know he will improve our offense, whats the proof he will hurt the defense? Kings are 13-19, we are the 3rd seed. Why does adding Fox make us the Kings? How about you make some ******* sense? All you keep saying are speculations with zero basis. You just hate fox and everything you say I had already rebutted. If you still dont get it you do you.
Fox is in that tier 2…if he hadn’t been with a sh*tty organization his entire career, it wouldn’t even be a question Devin Booker isn’t a tier 1 player, yet most people here seem like they would gladly give up every asset for him…I even see people clamoring for LaMelo Ball
Exactly. What we need most is a playmaker. I honestly think Fox is the best upgrade for us RN even over Booker. Booker wont help set up the offense. Lamelo wouldnbe great but he is also Mr Glass. Dont pay Max for Mr Glass
the same logic that has people saying Harden instead of FVV would’ve made our defense so much worse, yet the Clippers somehow manage to have the 4th ranked defense right now Kings trot out traffic cones Sabonis, Monk, Huerter, and Derozan for big minutes every night yet have the 16th ranked defense. Ime wouldn’t be able to incorporate Fox and still have the defense be elite as he’s flanked by Dillon Brooks, Amen, Tari if he’s not traded, Jabari, etc? Even turnstile Jalen Green is now adequate under Ime
He's a worse defender than FVV, what do you mean proof? I have nothing against fox, he's fine, he just doesn't do for the rockets what i want so i don't want him. I wouldn't want the rockets to trade for any player who isn't a top 10ish player who will make 30% of the cap or more at this point.
