It seems you're just moving the goalposts at this point. Last post you talk about passing centers being hard to grasp for guards and now you're talking Princeton offense when I called you out on Sabonis being an elite passing center. NBA coaches aren't idiots and Fox has been under enough coaches to have played in multiple systems. And history of the NBA suggest that star players traded mid-season are just fine on their new teams. It's not like half of ball-dominant players traded midseason in the past all fail with their new teams. Hell many even overperform once they get on a team with stakes and more talent.
I just don't believe it's true teams have a good idea of whether their 22 yr old is good enough to win a championship. You could have said the same thing about Jaylen Brown or Nikola Jokic or Giannis as a 22 yr old. They were not locks. I think history tends to rewrite these things. They're all superstars after they win it, but I don't forget the narratives that were there before. Nook we're on pace to make the playoffs this season despite the worst shooting in the NBA, no contribution from Reed or Cam, with 5-6 picks, Ime Udoka coaching and everyone's future bird rights in hand. We're getting to the 50+ mark next season just with basic, minimum, standard improvement for players this exact age. The idea that you need x and y player is highly subjective. The only thing you need to win a title is - at minimum- a top 10 offense and top 10 defense, the higher the better. We're ahead of schedule defensively. It's not going to be that hard to catch up offensively. Have faith.
Dude it's all of the above of course. Goal posts are for games, I'm just telling you Udoka seems like one of the least capable offensive coaches and Sacramento run what is historically known to be a difficult offense to implement. If Udoka can run that he should run it last week lol.
There are players at 22-23 that are not stars, that become stars for sure. Jalen Brown didn't make a leap until 23 - Clyde Drexler is another - and if I sat and thought about it, I could come up with more..... however Jokic and Alphabet were already near stars or stars by 22 years old. From a macro level, most players do not make a massive jump but some do. You said 1% - that is what I disagree with .... 50% I would have not disagreed with you. There is just so much variability with injuries, etc. that is why I say it is close to a coin flip that either Amen or Sengun has a better career than someone that has averaged 25 points the last 5 years. Yes, the Rockets are having a nice season - I don't contest that. I have concerns about the ability to win in the playoffs without a closer but that is an issue that will be answered. The Rockets can have everyone's Bird rights but they will not be able to sign everyone - at some point they need to make moves. I personally would at least listen to the Kings on Fox, he is a top 5-10 scorer in the league, and I believe has some untapped upside as well.... having said that, he also has some warts as well. I would not trade Amen or Sengun for him - but I would consider Smith/Reed/Eason (not more than 1) and picks for Fox. The defense right now is good enough to win a title - so is the depth - effort and coaching. The offense isn't good enough, and while I expect improvement - I don't see a top offense without adding someone to this roster that can really put the ball in the basket.
Do you think we can win a championship if we trade for Fox? Would Fox + (insert whoever you think the best player on the rockets is/will be in 3-4 years) be good enough to be a championship level Batman/Robin?
If a big package means more than 2 additional young assets or picks then I don’t want it. I’d hesitate at letting go of Reed or Tari or Jabari. I think they are all big parts of our future. Remember that Harden’s greatest opportunities were in the later years, when we were 4 out, with only Capela as a non shooter. And remember when we got Westbrook and could really only maximize him by playing him in the dunker spot, with shooters around him. Remember also that Harden was a very good shooter at volume who extended his defender and drew doubles even to midcourt. Fox doesn’t do that.
The Rockets are currently 16th on offense despite being bottom 5 in basically all shooting stats and zero offensive stars. Some of the teams in this area include the Warriors, Wolves, Hawks and Bucks, all of whom have at least one star if not superstar, as well as more established successful coaches. At worst you can say Udoka is not a great offensive mind, but him making this a transition/offensive rebounding team is actually pretty catered to this roster.
Fox gives you what we lack the most: a go to scorer who can break droughts. In crunch time, his drives result in scores or FTs. This team doesn’t have that and it shows badly.
Severely miscalculating Nook, have a look back into the books. At age 22, Jokic was 18/10/6 and a lesser defender than Sengun. Almost identical to what Sengun is averaging at 22 offensively. Objectively speaking, hardly any difference there. He became bigger the following year but you and I both know until the final game of the nba finals he won, people were questioning whether Jokic was defensively good enough to ever win a title. I get that you want to be ultra safe, but I don't think it's reasonable to build this team with the mindset "what if not a single player in our core ends up as good as Aaron Fox?". That's not a strategy, that's a stress test. It's not the actual situation we're in. Same thing you're applying to bird rights. Of course we won't sign everyone, the point is we have more team control than other teams do on their roster. On Fox overall value, sounds like you really like him but I don't think there are many GM's who are trading Amen or Sengun right now for Fox unless they are about to win a title so I think that's a pretty good sign we should not be pessimistic about the natural development of our young players.
I'm sorry, I just don't think Udoka deserves most of the credit for that. Rebounding is ultra player-based, people are what they are within a season. Every year there are 10-15 coaches telling their team to rebound the most, but our roster is the one that did it. Doesn't require strategy, just hustle. Players are willing us there. As for Ime, his job is to design good plays and offense so we get better quality shots than those that the opponent just hands to us. He's not been good at that and this is not the first time. Honestly, I'm not up for this debate because it's so far. The analysts, national media, fans of other teams and most of the fans of this team and all of the ones who know our offensive rating conclude that this is not good enough for the parts we have. Happy to accept you disagree.
as a older person (40s) I wish NBA required players to stay 2-3 years in college, unfortunately we are in th age of instant gratification and younger fans / new fans don’t understand just because you join NBA at a younger age, it doesn’t speed up your results. body still has to grow into NBA body, maturity has to continue to grow… you are just doing everything at steeper learning curve. patience is key, outside of FVV - Ime doesn’t allow players to do nothing he doesn’t approve of… you jack bad shots, you getting benched (Bari got benched in Wolves game, he came down shot a quick 3 and then a horrible baseline turn around) and Ime benched him Whenever it’s 2 for 1 - Ime puts Jalen back in game…that tells me Ime is okay if that ends up in 2-3 3pt attempts ( I would rather he tell JG to attack rim )
Nothing to do with insider info, I don't know if the team is actually pursuing Fox. Just comparing opinions on the roster's potential.
Huh? 18/10/6 is pretty damn good, especially for a center as a passer... he was also 50/40/85 from the floor that year.... . I never said anything about trading away Sengun either, so I don't see why that is relevant. Also - Jokic is the most extreme example out of thousands of basketball players. As for Fox - you made the claim that there was a 1% chance of Amen or Sengun not being better players.... and that is extreme. I find it odd that you mentioned those two, when a deal for Fox wouldn't likely involve either of those players. As for Fox - I don't believe I ever said anything about dealing Amen or Senguin for him..... a trade for Fox would likely be centered around Reed or Smith or Eason and draft picks. Do I like Fox? He isn't my favorite player, he has flaws - he is a little short and middling defensively - he isn't a good outside shooter - but he can get to the basket at an elite level, he is excellent at getting to the line and scoring - he gets 26 a night on the Kings and has averaged that over the last 5 years.
I agree somewhat, but would point out that Amen had a huge jump in offensive rebounding last year when Udoka moved him from backup PG primarily to a wing. How Amen is being used greatly increases his offensive rebounding chances. I don't think Udoka can wave a magic wand and turn anyone into Amen, but I don't think many coaches would have changed how Amen plays as much as Udoka did last season. Letting guys crash the offensive glass is a coaching decision, and most coaches tend to have players get back than crash. Crashing the glass would not be effective without the guys capable of doing it and Udoka should get credit for recognizing he has guys that can crash effectively without hampering the transition defense. I think Stone has done a good, but incomplete job building the roster. Udoka is cursed with a lack of shooters, but gifted rebounders. I doubt many expected the Rockets to have an averagish to slightly above average offense this late in the season with this roster.
I think that Fox is certainly good enough to be a Robin on a championship team. Is he good enough to be Batman? Probably not, but I do think he has more in the tank than what he has shown both offensively and defensively. I think he is right now a top 25 player, I think he can be a top 10-15 player at his peak. If the cost is Sheppard or Smith and a pick or two, I would seriously consider making the deal.... but that is just my opinion.
