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Bernie Sanders Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by HTM, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    EXACTLY!
     
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  2. HROZ

    HROZ Member

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    I agree with Bernie on Universal healthcare and a living wage. These two things are 100% agreed upon outside America in the developed world would.
    Also his strong stance on climate change is impressive and necessary.

    My issues with his campaign are:
    I think his scepticism on trade(NAFTA TPP etc) is disappointing. Free trade benefits all countries involved. Though I understand that too much sudden change can have large immediate consequences. While Bernie points to successful socialist governments like Sweden he omits that a big part of their policy is they are supporters of free trade.

    I think he is too old to be president. But I also think Biden is as well.
     
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  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    On trade this is a key point and one of the biggest reasons why I didn't support Sanders. I am largely for Globalization and I think it goes hand in hand with support for immigrants. I am both skeptical and suspicious of the Populist embrace of protectionism on the Left and Right. On the Right protectionism is the idea of both protecting American industries to preserve jobs from being outsourced and xenophobia of immigrants who are taking US jobs and also altering the US culture. On the Left the idea of protecting American industries to preserve jobs from being outsourced overseas and to undermine the power of multinationals who are benefiting the wealthy at the expense of labor. Frankly I find the Left position somewhat disingenuous, While the Left is very interested in protecting US jobs they go to pains to welcome immigrants. Immigrants though also want jobs and as many of them come from countries with much lower standards of living, or have backgrounds that don't meet US standards, and are very motivated to enter the work force they are willing to work at lower rates than most US workers. While the Left wants to stop outsourcing but will still open up the internal US job market to increase competition from immigrants coming into the country. The rhetoric of the Left states that they don't believe in xenophobia or nationalism and they care about the welfare of people all around the World. The problem is without trade that will stunt the development of many countries. I've brought this example up several times. Singapore at independence in 1965 was one of the poorest countries in Asia. It was behind countries like Burma and the Philippines. The Singapore that we know now was only possible because of trade including the outsourcing of low wage manufacturing jobs to factories in Singapore and then from globalization of banking and financial services. Exactly the type of global movement of capital that Sanders and others rail against. Without those factors Singapore wouldn't be the Singapore we think of. Globalization has lifted more people out of poverty than at any time in history.

    The other problem I have with Sanders position on trade and globalization is that while he is right that economic inequality is a big problem that wealth wouldn't have been generated without Globalization. For Sanders to say that we need a lot of new programs the resources to enact those programs the capital has to come from somewhere. If simultaneously he enacts all sorts of protectionist measures those could harm the very economy we need to support vast new programs. Many have said we can simply just spend more debt like we've been doing or just increase the money supply through tools like quantitative easing, so called Modern Money Theory. Part of why we aren't seeing rampant hyperinflation from those steps is that Globalization has largely tamped down inflation. Reducing production cost does actual reduce the cost that the consumer pays. Now if we were to just cut off trade and outsourcing we will see cost of goods rise. Add on to that a lot of deficit spending and increasing the money supply that with no increase in productivity we will see rampant inflation.

    So while I think Sanders is well meaning and I agree with many of the problems he identifies I think his policies are short sighted. I don't think they can be implemented and if they did might cause other problems.
     
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  4. HROZ

    HROZ Member

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    Yea Globalisation lead to one of the fastest economic growth periods in human history probably since the industrial age. I understand that jobs are going overseas but others are being created too. Manufacturing is disappearing(not really true) but IT & Business jobs have filled that space, in the developed world.

    If the USA turns away from globalisation it will hurt them while China has embraced it and will continue to grow.

    Though I agree wage disparity is an issue. That should really be improved with internal changes like a living wage, Low taxes on the poor. (In Australia approx the first $25K you make is tax free) we have our own issues (negative gearing one of my biggest gripes) but I think our situation is preferable.
     
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  5. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Bernie was a



    We missed out. Very appreciative of everything he did to push progressive policies into the mainstream. Hopefully one day we get tired of getting ****ed and make the choice to vote in someone who will represent the people.
     
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  6. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    Bernie is a good man with an unrivaled commitment to equality. He gave a strong voice to the liberal wing of the Democratic Party and I commend his efforts at mobilizing a formidable base to win some early primary contests. Eager to see him, Biden, Obama and the honorable men and women of this country unite to unseat Trump in November and forge a path to restoring our values as a nation.
     
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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  8. AroundTheWorld

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    opened this theead thinking he ded
     
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  9. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    Bernie radicalized an entire generation of lefties. He raised more money than any candidate in 2020 and outspend biden almost 15:1 yet got less votes in every state versus his 2016 campaign. It absolutely blows my mind away how popular he is as if hes accomplished anything. He hasnt passed a single bill in congress in his entire life. It just baffles my mind how lefties worship him
     
  10. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Bernie is awesome. Not a lot of winning, but the winning the Democrats managed to do looks like losing anyway. Maybe if we'd given the reins to the progressives we wouldn't have Trump today. Also, though there is much more to being a Senator than authoring laws, Bernie got 8 bills enacted into law. For comparison Pelosi did 9 and McConnell 28.
     
  11. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    Bidens entire admin was stacked with Bernie and Warren people. His econ team, FTC, NLRB, OMB, USTR, Energy department nd others were all stacked with progressives for the past 4 years. Biden did everything progressives wanted him to do (anti corporate regulations, student debt forgiveness, mar1juana rescheduling, trillions in climate spending). The fact that you dont think the past 4 years have been progressive proves my entire point at how clueless bernie supporters are when it comes to policy.

    Its hilarious how progressives think somehow their message is a winning message when every progressive ran behind kamala this past november. Moderate dems ran ahead of Kamala while progressives in congress ran behind Kamala and got smoked.
     
    #31 astros123, Dec 11, 2024
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2024

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