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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. calurker

    calurker Member

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    Lots of "she asked for it dressing like that" arguments in here.
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Putin isn't stupid - he's not looking to go to war with NATO. They can't even take Ukraine after 3 years. NATO actual has an air force even if the US withdraws.

    Reality is there there was nothing to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. For Putin it was all about timing to maximize his goals. The only question now is will Russia continue to take it all after Trump pulls support or will he settle now so he can declare victory and rebuild.

    Putin and the Kremlin think of Trump as a fool who will weaken the US and thus strengthen Russia - time is on their side. They run influence campaigns on the US all the time. I got a job offer from a startup in 2015 to optimize media on social to drive traffic to a content platform. When I looked at the platform it had no advertising and was just conspiracy ****. And the sites were all targeted to their own specific audience. The "founder" was a Turkish guy but he told me the money was from Russia. I didn't understand back then what the heck this was, but I knew it was not in the business of making money so I declined. Now I understand what it was.
     
    ROCKSS likes this.
  3. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    Another moronic post.

    "I will provide record funding for our military" - Donald Trump
    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/agenda47-rebuilding-americas-depleted-military
     
  4. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    She clearly was...
     
    ROCKSS and Nook like this.
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Yes - and the major cause of my grandfather breaking my grandma's jaw was because she did not have dinner on the table by 4:45 when he got home from work.
     
  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Ukraine was trying to join NATO long before the invasion in 2022.

    Poroshenko was President of Ukraine from 2014-2019 and he fully supported Ukraine joining NATO.

    Indeed - Zelensky ran on ending the conflict in the Dondas and with Russia and actively reached out to Putin in an attempt to have peaceful relations at the time of his election.

    There was the internal revolution inside Ukraine - where they ousted the Putin stooge as President and had the Ukranian Charter restored - and that upset Putin because he no longer had Ukraine as a vassal state.

    After it became clear that the Ukranian people in majority did not want a Moscow stooge as their leader - it became clear to Putin that he would no longer have control over Ukraine and he took steps to physically take it back and incorporate it into Russia.

    That isn't anyone's fault - no one "caused" Putin to do anything - he realized that his country was financially an isolated **** hole, that the education levels and the growth in his country was terrible - that he has alienated Russia from the rest of the world and the only real way to improve conditions was to take the fertile area of Ukraine, to take the minerals and skilled workers and to increase the size of Russia - so he took part of it, and when the time was right, he invaded and believed he would take the whole country ---- something that he had been planning for years based on the build up at the border, that US intelligence relayed to the predecessor to Zelensky, and Zelensky - who publicly rebuffed the USA's intelligence of an imminent invasion because he wanted to try and reach an agreement with Putin.
     
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Right.

    They are not fighting against losing their freedoms - their national identity and being under the control of a brutal dictator. It is all because they want that NATO designation...... to prevent having a brutal dictator.... invade their country.
     
  8. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    I guess we can count @glynch out if the British ever decide they want their colonies back. Roll over and just accept it.
     
    dmoneybangbang and Nook like this.
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    There are a lot of options....

    Trump can quietly keep the status quo resulting in a stalemate until either Russia or Ukraine decided enough is enough.

    Trump can put his tail between his legs and completely cut off Ukraine - allowing Europe to decide whether to aid Ukraine or let the country fall. In this scenario there is egg on the face that Russia has taken Ukraine - but that won't be in the headlines forever. I am sure Trump would like Putin to slowly take Ukraine to lessen the blow for the USA - but Putin doesn't really give a **** what Orangey wants.

    Trump can open it - send the weapons that Biden trickled in and see what happens. In that scenario, if Putin doesn't escalate - Trump has to deal with people claiming he backed out of his campaign promise but ultimately would be seen as a hero.

    Trump claimed that he will have the war ended on his first day in office - so either he breaks his promise or he stops taking calls from Zelensky.

    My guess is that Trump gives into Putin on a LOT of what he wants so that Putin is gentle about the takeover of Ukraine after Biden leaves office .... of course Putin knows that he can bend over Trump based on the promises Trump made, and the recent comments coming out of the Kremlin.
     
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  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    You mean Trump Secretary of State Nominee Marco Rubio?

    You mean Trump UN Ambassador Nominee Elise Stefank?

    You mean Trump National Security Advisor Mike Walz?

    That is an awful lot of Neocon's in positions of power for Donald Trump....

    But you are right, all of the Neocon's are democrats now because you think it sounds cool.
     
  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Trump already pledged to increase military spending.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    There is no real reason for Putin to agree to a 20% territorial gain.

    Trump has made it clear he will end the war - he does not want to use political equity by asking Congress for additional spending on the war.

    Putin has to believe he has close to a blank check in Ukraine to do what he wants.

    I agree that Putin at this point will not invade any NATO nations - it will take time for him to fully incorporate Ukraine back into the Motherland's bosom anyway. He needs to repaint all the signs into Russian colors, he has a lot of freedom fighters to murder, and a lot of cronies to appoint to local governmental positions and he needs to figure out best how to exploit the natural resources and to move in Russians as well.
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Sanctions aren't a magical bullet, but I would claim they have worked and shifted the war into a battle of attrition.

    If Trump pulls out mid 2025 despite guaranteed committed funding for most of next year, then yeah, most people will stick to the belief that sanctions were ****.

    Holding ground and waiting for Americans to lose their attention has always been a winning strategy.
     
  14. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    #16834 Commodore, Nov 19, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2024
  15. LosPollosHermanos

    Supporting Member

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    Imagine being so mentally fragile, that you have to make r****ded takes and block people from viewing their reply to said takes
     
  16. dmoneybangbang

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    And Russian said it would respect Ukraine's sovereignty if they gave up their nuclear weapons....

    You are just ignorant about Russian history and cause and effect....

    Russia has been an imperialist country for centuries now.... it was under the czars.... under the "communists"..... under same thing under Putin. And because of Russia's imperialist strategy of conquering it's neighbors and using them as buffer zones while generally brutally treating them.

    Countries want to join NATO because they don't prefer that model of Russia's brutal rule, not the other way around.

    It's alright comrade, I don't expect you to actually understand geopolitics and history.
     
    #16836 dmoneybangbang, Nov 19, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2024
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    Define "work". Accelerating becoming a vassal state of China (not an ally during the modern era) is in Putin's interests? Rampant inflation in Putin's interests?

    It's certainly a better option than direct war between major powers..... but China and Russia seem pretty hell bent on conquering their neighbors.
     
  18. dmoneybangbang

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    And why would former USSR territories want to join a security pact against their former occupiers??? It's almost as if eastern Europe didn't much care for Russia's treatment of their people and wanted security against Russia.....
     
  19. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    We live in a real world, you don't get all that you want. Palestinians would like to have a two state solution, but they are not getting one. Argentina would like to have the folk island, they will not in the foreseeable future. Russia doesn't want to have NATO expand to Ukraine and Georgia, it may not be right, but they are willing to go to war for it. Would the NATO willing to start WW III to admit Ukraine into NATO? I think professor Mearsheimer had it right, this is big power politics.
     
  20. dmoneybangbang

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    This doesn't get talked about enough....
     

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