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Hamas attacks Israel: Yom Kippur War, 50 years on

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Oct 7, 2023.

  1. AroundTheWorld

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  2. basso

    basso Member
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    Biden's been wrong on virtually every foreign policy issue in the past 50 years.
     
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  3. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    and domestic policy too
    @Os Trigonum
     
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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    All of the things that he pointed out are important and Islam can be very repressive,

    Having said that - right now most Palestinian women are hoping that they do not die from IDF bombing, that their children find food and water and that they don't have their children die from the conditions.
     
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  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Wasn't this already public knowledge?

    Hamas doesn't equal - Palestinians

    Hamas is and has been a terrorist organization

    They took over Gaza and ran out all of the opposition.

    This fact makes the bulldozing of Gaza by the IDF even worse.

    Many innocent Gazan's have paid the price -
     
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  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    The Torah has the exact same prescriptions for women in society as Islam. All the abrahamic religions explicitly state that the wife must submit to the husband.

    The material conditions of Israelis is what allows more modern views on women in society, not their religion. Same with Americans.

    I literally see this phenomenon bear out every time I visited Bangladesh and traveled between the wealthy districts in Dhaka and poorer rural villages. Where do you think I saw women dress in western style clothing more and walk around independently with career ambitions more?
     
    #12726 fchowd0311, Nov 18, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2024
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I agree on Abrahamic religions -

    Material conditions definitely play a large part in the equation - I do not know how much.
     
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  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    The only thing the war in Gaza has accomplished is killing and displacing a large amount of Palestinians while creating more young radicalized men willing to commit violence in the future.
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Good news is I can inform you....

    100%.

    I can physically witness in my own eyes the Muslim family members in my extended family and network of family friends where my family comes from decent wealth back in Bangladesh(professional class of engineers, doctors etc) and this entire community, the girls have the same burden and standards as the boys in being academic and career driven. They place high expectations on the girls to accomplish something career wise and they are all Muslim.
     
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  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The war in Gaza is an effort to remove Palestinians from Gaza.

    Some forces in Israel have spend 50+ years trying to figure out how to make up the mathematical reality that the Jews are greatly outnumbered by the Palestinians - who, would vote to throw out a Jewish dominant government. They have tried encouraging re-settlement by Jews across the globe to equalize the numbers, but have learned that they cannot procreate as quickly as the Palestinians. They have tried pushing out the Palestinians, but borders have been built to prevent it. They have tried making the conditions so untenable that the Palestinians would leave on their own. They have even tried breaking their will.

    At this point - the best bet is to clear more land for further expansion of Israel and Israeli settlements. They cannot let them just linger around, the world response from the West has been too negative - they don't want to fall into the South Africa trap.

    So - here we are.
     
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  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    That was the case in Iraq and Iran as well.

    In the case of Iraq it wasn't all of Iraq, but there were large areas where women had lots of freedoms - and there were a number of social taboos that were violated. For example, in Iraq, in the progressive areas - it was common for women to cheat on their husbands without a lot of social stigma. There was also a lot of power for the top women within the extended families in Iraq. The men often could do what they wanted as long as they supported their families - but the women had arguably more actual day to day power than the men.
     
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  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    If America is funding the expansion, I'm all for resettlement of all Palestinians to a safe haven somewhere within the US as compensation for ****ing them over for decades.
     
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  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I have been very supportive of immigration to the USA.

    There were a lot of people in Iraq for example that wanted to come to the USA, that worked very hard and were good people - that did not like or support religious government or totalitarian control. In some cases - these people actually risked their lives to help the US soldiers, served with them - and were never granted citizenship because of prejudice at home.

    I am sure there are a number of Palestinians that would meet the requirements to immigrate to the USA.
     
  14. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

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    I'd much rather asylum immigration be used for Palestinians fleeing a terrorist government than for people crossing the southern border seeking economic opportunity. It's a shame that the Hamas was voted into power.
     
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  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    What about Palestinians fleeing IDF bombing campaigns that level 90% of credential property of 2.2 million humans?
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The circumstances around the election of Hamas are sketchy - and they were not elected "for life" like they enacted once they were in power.

    I don't know every Palestinian obviously - but all of the ones I do know, hate Hamas.

    Now - I know some Palestinians that hate the Israeli government as much as they hate Hamas - but it usually is a "both" scenario.

    However - there are especially - many women and children that I believe should be strongly considered for citizenship in the USA or at least tracked towards citizenship.
     
  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Palestinian men? They are suffering also arguably the most as Palestinian men are seen as "kill on sight" in entire zones in Gaza. Palestinian men are seen as enemy combatants by the very nature of being Palestinian military age males. They need to be protected also.
     
  18. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

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    I'm not sure when you democratically elect a terrorist organization that you should be surprised when they take power permanently. Either way, like you say, it's a tragedy. I'm sure there are plenty of folks, men, women, and children, who should be considered. It's awful what's happened there.

    It's not in the USA's interest to take on every refugee, though - hopefully other countries are willing to step up, too.
     
  19. Nook

    Nook Member

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    In general, I am more sympathetic to women and children in war torn areas and prioritize them.
     
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  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    When you are not used to democracy and have limited information - it isn't all that shocking that they Palestinians would not choose wisely. Also - Hamas didn't even get 50% of the vote, they got like 44% and only won by a few percentage points if I remember correctly. Also - Hamas benefitted from the Fatah party calling off elections several times. Also - from what I have been told, Fatah was riddled with corruption going back to the first election and Hamas painted themselves as the party of change.

    I am not going to be overly harsh on Palestinians over a single election 20 years ago, especially under all the circumstances and all of the outside issues and interferences happening.

    No - I don't think that the USA should take every possible immigrant, it isn't feasible.
     

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