1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    31,670
    Likes Received:
    19,100
    [​IMG]
     
    Invisible Fan, Deckard and dobro1229 like this.
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    57,882
    Likes Received:
    47,809
    I think Ukraine will endure as a country but it will be greatly weakened. It will be forced to give up at least 20% of its territory and make several other concession to the Russians.

    Russia will likely be emboldened to act on non NATO former Soviet states and if I was Georgia I would be worried.

    I doubt Russia even under Trump would dare attack a NATO nation but could press for concessions from the Baltic states.

    NATO might not be dead and I don’t think Trump will completely pull out from it but it will be greatly weakened and the EU will pursue a separate defense strategy.
     
  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,838
    Likes Received:
    21,252
    Friend of mine works on the patriot missile program at Lockheed.

    Apparently this week Germany, Poland, and Sweden have all requested massive orders to be expedited far faster than the expected normal timeframe.

    Anyone thinking that Trump is doing anything to take down the military industrial complex by gifting Ukraine to Putin is an utter fool.
     
  4. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    31,670
    Likes Received:
    19,100
    But ... but ... the Convicted Felon promised!!!
     
    Invisible Fan, DaDakota and dobro1229 like this.
  5. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    24,681
    Likes Received:
    16,354
    Zelensky: The war will be over soon with Trump.

    Russian: Delivers the biggest airstrike on sleeping civilians ever.


    [​IMG]
     
    No Worries likes this.
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    57,882
    Likes Received:
    47,809
    Considering Elon Musk has his hands in defense spending the MIC will only grow.
     
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    57,882
    Likes Received:
    47,809
    The war will
    Likely be over soon as Ukraine will be pressed to make major concessions to Russia or try to fight the war without US support.
     
  8. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    31,670
    Likes Received:
    19,100
    Or the EU countries and Ukraine will get the Russia War of Aggression sorted all by themselves, without any "American Exceptionalistic Leadership".

    All praise the Convicted Felon for bending the knee to Putin ... making the US a vassal state to Russia. The Convicted Felon is showing the world how appeasement works!!!
     
    cheke64 likes this.
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota Trump is a convicted felon
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    126,257
    Likes Received:
    35,384
    Donald Chamberlin Trump.

    DD
     
    cheke64 and No Worries like this.
  10. Commodore

    Commodore Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    32,518
    Likes Received:
    16,361
  11. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,180
    Likes Received:
    39,885
    Great news! At last.

    [​IMG]

    ‘Extraordinarily dangerous’: Intelligence community insiders warn against Trump’s DNI pick
    Former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard has a “history of irresponsibly promoting misinformation,” said one official.

    BY PATRICK TUCKER
    SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY EDITOR, DEFENSE ONE
    NOVEMBER 15, 2024

    Former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, President-elect Donald Trump’s pick for director of national intelligence, lacks experience, and her record of Russia-aligned public statements could undermine the ability of the United States to acquire intelligence from allies and partners, current and former intelligence officials say.

    Trump on Wednesday announced his intention to put Gabbard, who served in Congress as a Democrat from Hawaii, in charge of the national intelligence office. The office coordinates intelligence efforts across the entire government, forges intelligence-sharing relationships with other countries, and shapes the way the public and the White House understand threats to U.S. interests. The office takes a leading role in assembling the daily brief for the president, which the White House uses to understand how adversaries are working against the United States, and in telling the public about threats Americans face.

    Gabbard, an Iraq war veteran and lieutenant colonel in the Army Reserve, has military experience but not a deep background in intelligence. One former senior intelligence official told Defense One that such experience is vital to making sense of the wide variety of intelligence pieces that compose a picture of current or future threats.

    “What people don't understand about intelligence is, if it's known, it's not intelligence. It's that assessment that you make. It has uncertainty, and the craft of understanding that uncertainty has nothing to do with opinion but rather has to do with trust, integrity and independence,” the former official said.

    But intelligence community veterans are more concerned with her past actions and public statements—particularly those that aligned with Kremlin propaganda—than her resume.

    In 2022, as Russian forces were launching an illegal expansion of their war against Ukraine, Gabbard said the U.S. was to blame, echoing a claim Russian President Vladimir Putin made to justify his invasion—but that NATO and the United Nations fully reject. Putin later said the war was actually a means to reconstitute the territorial empire of Catherine II.

    Gabbard has echoed other Russian talking points as well, including one that came directly from Kremlin information operations.

    Beyond Ukraine, Gabbard met with Syrian dictator and Russian ally Bashar Al-Assad in 2017. Assad continued to target civilians with chemical attacks after meeting Gabbard. But two years after the meeting, she refused to say whether he was a war criminal—despite clear evidence that he had killed some 1,400 people in Syria in a chemical weapons attack in 2013, among other crimes.

    Gabbard’s pattern of publicly taking positions that are not supported by fact but do match up with narratives out of Moscow is going to hurt U.S. intelligence-sharing relationships with partner militaries and governments, the former senior official said. Many allies are already wary of Trump because of actions during his first term in the White House, such as abandoning Kurdish fighters in Syria in 2018—a move that prompted the resignation of several members of Trump’s first cabinet, including then-Defense Secretary James Mattis and anti-ISIS coalition envoy Brett McGurk.

    “They're watching. Remember, there are a whole bunch of people that already, from [Trump’s] first term, are not comfortable with Trump because he was willing to throw allies and partners on a whim under the bus…So [allies] are already worried. And now this is a pertinent person who has basically said, ‘Hey, I think these bad guys are good guys.’”


    Gabbard’s past public statements will also hurt her ability to earn trust among rank-and-file intelligence workers in the United States, said one current intelligence official.

    “Tulsi's history of irresponsibly promoting misinformation and giving comfort to some of America's most aggressive adversaries is counter to the values of the intelligence community. If confirmed, she'll have a steep hill to climb to earn the trust and respect of the community,” the official told Defense One.
    (the rest of the story at the link below)

    https://www.defenseone.com/threats/...s-dni-pick/401092/?oref=d1-homepage-top-story
     
  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    16,653
    Likes Received:
    7,590
    It's pretty simple. Trump will issue a mandate for Starlink to stop providing service in war zones. Musk eagerly compiles. Thus proving why Starlink will get a massive weapons contract to make a whole fleet of starshields. How dare a company stop providing services to the government.
     
  13. Commodore

    Commodore Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    32,518
    Likes Received:
    16,361
  14. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    31,670
    Likes Received:
    19,100
    Russia is responsible for Election Day bomb threats targeting black precincts in Georgia.

    Seems fair to let Ukraine provide some payback.
     
    dobro1229 and FranchiseBlade like this.
  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,180
    Likes Received:
    39,885
    Assuming Ukraine can quickly get a large number of long range missiles from the US as well as the UK, France, and Italy, who quickly agreed to allow the use of their long range missiles deep within Russia by Ukraine - immediately after Biden changed his mind, Ukraine will put them to good use. As the map below points out, a huge number of Russian targets are within the range of those NATO ballistic and cruise missiles.

    I expect Germany to join in, eventually. Russia importing thousands of North Korean troops, as well as ballistic missiles from NK, was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back with Biden. That, and "loose cannon" trump taking office in two months. Iran is also sending Putin ballistic missiles. Israel reportedly hammered some of the factories when they attacked recently that are used used by Iran to build ballistic missiles and long range drones. It was done because of Israel's self-interest, but hopefully it will cut down on what Iran can send Putin. Vladimir Putin brought this on himself, and he was warned not to do it by Germany and other NATO members some time ago.


    Ukraine Now Allowed To Use Long-Range Missiles Deep Into Russia: Reports

    This represents a major policy change two months before Donald Trump takes office.
    Howard Altman
    Posted 1 Hour Ago

    In a major policy shift with two months left in office, the Biden administration will allow Ukraine to use U.S.-produced and donated Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) short-range ballistic missiles deep inside Russia. The missiles, which can hit targets of up to about 190 miles away, are likely to first be used in Russia’s Kursk region, according to The New York Times, citing U.S. officials. The publication was the first to report the administration’s change of heart.

    The policy change was spurred by the presence of North Korean troops fighting in Kursk, the officials said. Ukrainian Lt. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, head of Ukraine’s Defense Intelligence Directorate, told us on Sunday that there are 12,000 North Korean troops now in Kursk. Pyongyang could eventually send 100,000 troops to Russia, Bloomberg reported on Sunday.

    Russia has sent about 50,000 troops, including North Koreans, into Kursk to take back territory lost during Ukraine’s three-month-old invasion. It marks the second attempt by Russia to push Ukraine out of Kursk. So far, it appears the Russians have been suffering large losses of personnel and equipment without having cut too deeply into Ukraine’s Kursk salient.

    Likely targets for Ukraine include logistics nodes, supply lines, ammunition storage and equipment storage sites and large gatherings of troops, adding additional stresses on Russia’s attempts to dislodge Ukraine before Donald Trump takes office in Janurary. You can see some potential targets in the following map.



    https://www.twz.com/news-features/u...-long-range-missiles-deep-into-russia-reports
     
    No Worries and FranchiseBlade like this.
  16. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    94,202
    Likes Received:
    45,689
  17. Commodore

    Commodore Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    32,518
    Likes Received:
    16,361
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    44,691
    Likes Received:
    26,678
    Their war of attrition was projected to peter out for both sides late 2025. With Trump's win, Russia can hold out longer knowing that they have leverage at the negotiating table...much like the how Trump negotiated a last minute "outgoing presidents deal" with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

    Maybe not the best example?
     
  19. Xenon

    Xenon Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    720
    Hell yeah, let russia burn. I hope he leaves an upper decker in all the toilets too.
     
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,838
    Likes Received:
    21,252
    What Biden did here was strengthen Ukraine’s position at the negotiating table. We know Trump will force Zelensky to the table with Putin in a couple months.

    What Zelensky can say now to Putin is that has leverage here too. It’s true without the US’ support he can’t fight Russia for eternity but Putin has incentive to end the war before I use the weapons I have. Would you rather end the war now and take your winnings you have (that you got illegally through killing thousands) or would you rather still get the same deal but after I destroy a few billion dollars worth of a Russias infrastructure and kill thousands of your people??
     
    juicystream likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now