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Ready for Great Again

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Xerobull, Nov 6, 2024.

  1. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    The world never going back to cheaper living.

    The earlier people deal with it the better they can cope.

     
    superfob, Agent94, Nook and 1 other person like this.
  2. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    I'm okay with term limits but only if it's paired with anti-corruption legislation that outlaws lobbying and overturns the Supreme Court's citizen's united decision.

    If you take out the infrastructure for mentoring new Congress members you'll be left with the lobbyists being where you go when you get newly elected, and need to understand where to go to get what they need.

    Of course MAGA cult followers want term limits with lobbyists for billionaires running DC though. Corruption and criminality is cool with them though so maybe this does get passed because they WANT more corruption that benefits billionaires.
     
    Agent94 likes this.
  3. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    A deal on the table to establish term limitations, you would strike it down because of lobbyist? Establishment candidates like Pelosi and McConnell allow lobbyist to be so effective.
    The money will always be in politics one way or another. I think its more important to remove these thrones. Spending 40-60 years in congress and literally dying in office is unacceptable. After 40 years of service, GTFO.
     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  4. AWIN

    AWIN Member

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    I know you own TSLA and BTC, maybe even PLTR...look for a Lambo?
     
  5. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Why are you so adamant about keeping corruption in DC?? I want to know why that's important to you, and why you believe billionaires should be allowed to run our government?

    The corruption and money in politics did not become what it was today until 2010 when the laws changed that legalized bribery. This isn't a 200 year norm that we have to accept. Trump has the power of dictator now. Why wouldn't you ask him to do something to use that power to reverse the corruption at the legal level? I really don't understand why you have a worldview that glorifies billionaires and corruption but I guess that's why you vote for a convicted felon, and adjudicated rapist.
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

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    There is really nothing "extreme" about JD Vance.
     
  7. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    Can you snowflakes give it a rest with the woke posts? It’s gay af.
     
    Agent94, IBTL and Nook like this.
  8. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    I am wounded by your new found boldness to speak up ... which so happened to coincide after Tuesday night.

    Here is a thought - friendships and respect were never fostered in the D&D. You had enough sense to stay out of the D&D ... up until recently.

    I always knew your views. I have respected your opinions and thoughts, regardless if they were different than mine. It would be nice if you would do the same.
     
  9. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
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    Weed delivery just became available in my area.
    Does that count?
     
    Tomstro likes this.
  10. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    Citizens United involved the federal government attempting to stop a movie critical of Hillary Clinton from being aired. The feds lost.
     
  11. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Was curious to what old Mike Pence was doing and he distanced himself from Trump and criticised the Capitol attack.

     
  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    You do know that Supreme Court decisions changes how laws are enforced for everyone rights?? Not just Hillary Clinton.

    The decision barred almost every restriction on corporations for giving money to elected officials. It legalized bribery and dark money through the blanket of a corporation. This is how democracies get corrupted.

    You are okay with corruption I’m sure since you voted for a criminal, but that doesn’t mean you get to lie to everyone else that your vision of a corrupt dictatorship is no big deal.
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    1. Get $$$ out of lobbying - make it illegal
    2. Term Limits for all branches of congress and the SC
    3. No insider trading when you are in congress
    4. All campaign contributions are reported publicly
    5. Kill citizens United
    6. Remove anyone in government that has taken a bribe.


    DD
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    You're not going to be able to outlaw lobbying, which is a protected by the first amendment right to petition the government. Even if you are amending the constitution to get term limits, it seems like edits to the first amendment is going to be extra sensitive. Lobbying can be and is regulated and I think it should be (though maybe not with this court!) on firm ground so long as the regulations don't prevent your petitioning right.

    I'd be alright with congressional term limits so long as they are generous. Noobs in congress are easier for companies like mine to manipulate because they are more reliant on lobbyists and other corporate resources to educate them on the issues. Veterans have more discernment for bullshit and likely have already seen the counterarguments to all your arguments. So that experience is valuable. Also, by limiting their public service careers, you pack more bodies into the lobbyist pipeline. Every termed-out congressman will cash in their relationships and their familiarity with the legislative landscape as the bridge to their next career. Which, in my view, isn't even a bad thing because they facilitate our first amendment right to petition the government. But, some people will see that as dirty.

    But I can also see the argument for corporate capture. Some legislators may develop an irrational loyalty to certain players after a long courting. If lobbyists' arguments are compelling, they should be as persuasive to the next guy as the current one. So some churn is healthy. That said, apart from some notable long-tenured legislators, we actually have what I would consider a healthy level of churn already. The average length of service for a Rep is 8.5 years. For a Senator, 11.2 years. If you want to shrink that further, you can do something to stop gerrymandering in the House and/or reduce the advantages that come with seniority (seniority advantage makes them want to continue serving and makes voters want to maintain their relative influence by keeping the incumbent). Going instead for a term limit seems to me more like a way to reduce the power of the leaders in both chambers, who tend to be long-tenured, vis-a-vis the president. In other words, a way to consolidate more power in the executive branch.
     
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  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    You can outlaw $$$$ in lobbying, no payment to congress, no outside sources writing bills for congress etc...etc..etc...

    Lobbying is fine, as long as bribing is not.

    DD
     
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  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Well you sure as hell aren't going to outlaw lobbying now, but back in 2021 there was a sliver of time we could have cleaned up the money in politics at least a little.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1

    This was a bill that passed the house but was blocked by Joe Manchin, and Kirstin Sinema in the Senate I believe that didn't have any 1st amendment challenges likely to succeed in the court trying to block it on those grounds. Mostly because it was about disclosure than it was about blocking the donations. This is a bill that wouldn't have overturned Citizen's United, but it would have gone a long way as a good first step at combatting it.

    You are right though that in the end this would be about consolidating more power with the executive branch.

    ...

    And all this is moot now. This idealistic theory of how to fix DC is a discussion for the United States pre 2025. The discussion needs to be about 2026 mid terms, and 2028. How do we fight to ensure at the state level elections can still be held democratically so there can be an opposition case to be made in the elections that can then present the case to potentially win elections to then bring back ways to reform our country at that point. At this point we have no earthly idea what is going to be left for us to deal with after these next 4 years. I think we'll have bigger fish to fry than discussing HR1 or term limits.

    Right now Trump has dictatorial power, and if he wants to put out an EO ordering Senators over the age of 75 to immediately vacate their seats he can do that. It'll be illegal, and unconstitutional, and Trump's people will then say that under the SCOTUS decision, this is an "official act" and Trump has the authority to order the DOJ to arrest those Senators if they do not vacate their seats, and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.
     
  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Lobbying and donations are intertwined but I want to be careful about conflating them. You can have robust lobbying that is healthy for democracy without billions in dark money going into campaign coffers. There are 2 first amendment considerations here. One is our right to petition. The other is the Citizens decision that money is speech. I'd like to find ways to fix the second without impinging on the first.
     
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  18. IBTL

    IBTL Member

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    Why are you telling someone to stay out of the D&D? That's rich coming from you.
     
  19. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    I am so jealous!!!
     
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  20. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    Hmmm. Depending on how much Trump does of what he has promised, we could get stagflation. The end of cheap labor and tariffs leading to high prices and high prices and a shrinking population leading to stagnation. If we get the white nationalism and that economic protectionism that MAGA wants, we might end up looking like Japan economically but without any of their social cohesion.
     

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