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Do the Rockets have a Fred Van Vleet problem?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by HealthyHamstring, Oct 31, 2024.

  1. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Also, before there's a stupid "he's trying to win games" response.... doing it this way has lead to 2 games where the Rockets blew 20 point leads and one game where they went down 20 points.

    If his goal is winning, what he's doing will not lead to that in even the medium term.
     
    #101 Bobbythegreat, Nov 1, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2024
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  2. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    I was also hoping Amen could be our future PG before this draft. I felt that he would be such a mismatch monster at that position.

    I have somewhat changed my view. The fact is, Amen can be (already is) a defensive monster in any position 1-4. If he develops an outside shot, he can be a 1-2. If not, he can be a 3-4. In other words, he is so versatile his position doesn't really matter.

    Reed on the other hand has the skillset that is most suitable to be a PG, and a very good one at that. Because of his size, he is pretty much limited to the backcourt. That's why if the Rockets are going to keep both guys, it makes more sense to groom Reed to be the future PG when Fred is gone--assuming Jalen is the long term scoring guard. Amen can fit anywhere. It's really a luxury to have a guy like Amen.
     
  3. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    The fact that you are wrong here tells me you are also wrong in saying Sheppard will be here for the next decade.
     
  4. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    I really don't disagree with what you've said here, I think it likely he gets something like that 3/90 on his next deal.
    Do you think it's likely he replicates last seasons numbers going forward?

    My question is whether he's enough at the PG spot to get you to the finals while on that next contract and unless everything breaks right, I'm not feeling it.
    The championship Toronto won, literally everything broke their way - injured opponents in the last two rounds and Kawhi did all the heavy lifting, Lowry played out of his mind ....
    FVV's a good, steady player. One that keeps the team from sinking but not necessarily one that "makes the team float" raising the level of everyone around him.
    I really think that resigning FVV hamstrings your ability to improve the roster going forward, particularly with the new apron rules.
    It will be rare that teams exceed that 2nd apron.


    If we're content with a best case scenario of a 4-5 seed .... sure. But I'd like to think bigger. If the ultimate prize is the goal, I think that is the position most in need of an upgrade in talent.
     
  5. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Sheppard hasnt shown he can be a good pg thats why he isnt getting minutes. The only thing he has shown is that he can be decent defensively unless he is specifically targeted.

    Yes its a luxury to have a guy like Amen who doesn't complain that he is being used everywhere. Usually these stars would have their people who would balk if the player isnt being used correctly in their eyes. Like Stephon Castle who said he envisioned himself as a pg, if Pops started playing him at 4 and 5 and told him he will be the future center I'm sure he would complain. Not Amen though.
     
  6. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Jalen Green and Sengun are only 22 there is no way to think about contention right now. Even MJ and Lebron only won at age 28 and you think Jalen and Sengun are so much better than those two?

    FVV is just a stopgap he wont be here in 5 yrs so don't stress about him. Even if he is resigned it would be for around 3 yrs only so even then he wont be the pg when the Rox are about to contend.
     
  7. Dankstronaut

    Dankstronaut Way, way out here.

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    I think so too and I've seen some complaints lately about how it's only affecting small/mid market teams from keeping roster together (namely the Nuggets and Bucks) but I feel like they just happened to be on the cusp of making a similar decision anyway and the 2A rules really cinch it up tight.

    Unless you really believe your team is set to run a dynasty I don't see why you'd bother with that repeater tax. Not to mention how crazy restrictive roster modification gets.

    People think billionaires would be as loose with money as they are I guess. They are billionaires because they make smart business decisions. Even the most risk tolerant team owner is gonna look at the extra tens of miliions real hard. Legit if you're not in the top 4 teams you're throwing money away just to make people like the annoying half of clutchfans happy.
     
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  8. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    Some owners are going to spend money .... Many teams still make huge returns despite being in the tax. Think about it, who cares if you pay $100m in tax if you make $500m on top of it - GSW the last few years.


    I feel like the roster modification issues surrounding the 2A are more punitive than the tax itself.

    dollar for dollar trade returns make deals very difficult

    No cap exceptions (MLE,BAE) just minimum contracts.

    No trade exceptions.

    No cash in trades.

    Loss of draft assets.

    You simply lose the ability to add talent or salary, previously you could spend as much as your owner would fork over, now the cap is a real one.

    Being completely honest, I like the new rules. I think it'll make for more competition and a better product.
     
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  9. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Exactly. The NBA is not the MLB with a Yankees and Dodgers championship. But it was not the NFL either. This a step in the right direction.
     
  10. Little Bit

    Little Bit Member

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    Five is too many. Unacceptable for a guard. That’s why Fred continues to get minutes because our other guards are turnover prone. However, Fred needs to step up offensively. If you’re not playmaking and not making shots then you become a black hole on the offensive end.
     
  11. Dankstronaut

    Dankstronaut Way, way out here.

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    Yeah that's kinda what I was getting at, the Warriors FO paid up because they knew the team had the goods to make those runs. Why would any team participate in these restrictive measures if they didn't feel like they had a legit shot at the chip?

    I like it too. If you're already running out a couple all-stars you can't go add the league's MVP too. NBA can do whatever but behind closed doors I'd bet they know that they kinda sacrificed the parity of the league for a decade to milk their cashcows.
     
  12. CantStopJG24

    CantStopJG24 Member

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    If we had actual fans at the game, this clown would be getting booed out the stadium. Imagine playing like this as a Knick. Tobias got booed for less. Meanwhile he gets to get skate by shooting 25% every game.
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Shephard + Amen + Green is a better backcourt - more versatile than... 3 players that can all create.

    FVV + Brooks + Green -.......this one only has 1 real creator.

    DD
     
  14. harold bingo

    harold bingo Member
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    How often has Fred been held accountable? How many times has he been benched?

     
  15. Htown Stros

    Htown Stros Member

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    Yeah, Ime is giving me serious Dusty Baker vibes with how he handles his players. Dude clearly has some hard on for FVV and refuses to sit him when he’s playing like ass.
     
  16. jayhow92

    jayhow92 Member

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    #6 in minutes per game at 37.8 with this statline

    12.5 ppg
    5.7 apg
    28.2% fg
    28.3% 3pfg

    He is absolutely the problem. I would have guessed these were westbrook numbers not FVV. The vet leadership is leading us to Ls
     
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  17. Dankstronaut

    Dankstronaut Way, way out here.

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    You can't have an offense that depends on the point to break down a defender and make a read, when 85% of the game that guy is damn near too physically limited to do so. Find a system or play the athletes capable of doing what you need.
     
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  18. Little Bit

    Little Bit Member

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    I was all for keeping Fred past this year but I didn’t realize he would regress this badly on both ends of the court. And now Ime is using him as a crutch even when he’s hurting the team. This may be a situation where you have to save Ime from himself and trade Fred at the deadline or don’t re-sign him after this year. Pickup another veteran point guard that can’t do any worse than what he’s doing now for a lot less.
     
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  19. AroundTheWorld

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    I always wanted Tyus Jones, but he is in Phoenix now.
     
  20. MaxRider

    MaxRider Member

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    Another thing I hate is how much time he's dribbling the ball and not passing the ball.
     

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