Absolutely I do. And I as anyone on this board would be more than naive to think that anything going on over in the Middle East will stop as a result of what is happening. History has taught us that. It's not just Israel and Palestine. It's Iran, Pakistan Afghanistan. I have lived through all of this before. Hell, I was active duty and deployed during Desert Storm. It's lather rinse and repeat, each side kills the other and then a peace treaty is signed only to be broken 5 years later. It sucks that innocent people are being killed. Unfortunately, that is war. The only difference is the side in which you choose to be the victor. do you remember how incensed ALL Americans were immediately after 9-11 That is Israel's Oct. 7. None of this would be happening if a certain group of people stayed home and prayed on the Koran that evening instead of gunning down innocent folk. You might see me as genocidal, but I see myself as supporting the only SEMI non wavering support system in the region. Sorry that we just disagree. This is America and I back those that back us. There is no disrespect intended on my end towards you, and you can try to convince me how bad those damn Jews are. We just have a different point of view. I prefer those that do not want death to America and Americans. That's kind of all I have to say on the matter.
By definition wars are won by ceasefires with enemies which then leads to a peace treaty agreement. That's literally the historically upheld definition of ending a war. Longstanding occupations though do often lead to pure defeat. See Soviet Union in Afghanistan, US in Vietnam, etc. etc. If I was an Israeli official right now advising Netanyahu with the good of Israel in mind I would be advising him of that fact. Gaza is much much larger than people think, and there's just no real way of truly wiping the country off of the map in a way that people think. Even if Israel dropped nukes on Gaza they are so close that the fallout would be self defeating, and would radiate the entire country of Israel potentially. The whole Rome/Carthage example is kind of silly too. Like Rome eventually fell, and even in the Bible, Rome is kind of like the bad guy. Also weren't the Punic Wars like EIGHTY YEARS LONG?? Does anyone think Israel has 80 years to draw this sucker out?? Also this war Hawky talk doesn't sound very Libertarian to me. You kind of sound more like Dick Cheney circa 2005 honestly.
I have no doubt that the Israeli children of victims of terror attacks committed by a Palestinian terror group have severe trauma and are much easier targets to radicalize into hatred of Palestinians as a whole. I do know that Palestinian civilians in the past half century have been killed in like a 20:1 ratio compared to Israeli civilians so you can imagine the spider web of affected humans capturing a much wider net of humans than Israelis so it would make much more sense that a lot more Palestinians are radicalized because a much larger percentage of them experienced some severe traumatic events due to the conflict than Israeli civilians. And unlike the German citizens who went through the horrible effects of bombing campaigns; Palestinian culture and their ability to rebound from catastrophic events is much less resilient because they have been an occupied people for almost an entire century without self determination limiting basic things to allow society to prosper while German civilians before WW2 at least had a self determined society with working infrastructure not attached to some neighboring country that could easily overpower you and limits your self determination. Palestinians before the colonial settlers movement were farmers, tenants of land, nomadic herders etc. They were not part of the industrial revolution. So what Palestinians basically experienced in the past 100 years is a life of herding and farming with no industrialization but at least some semblance of self determination to suddenly being kicked out of those lands they managed for generations into refugee camps. So no, Palestinians will not magically build a first world modern industrialized power from that background. It doesn't make them lesser humans. So ya their resiliency after ethnic cleansing campaigns is not going to be anywhere as resilient as German civilians after WW2 because before WW2 Germany was a massive industrialized nation with self determination.
Yes hence why human civilization has a plethora of genocides and ethnic cleansings. Today the Turkish government dismisses the Armenian genocide using the same logic of "they lost a war and therefore lost land".
You just didn't tell me you understand the history of the Levant because of your experience as a Desert Storm veteran... Don't make me start rolling on the floor laughing over such a serious issue. Please man I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of belittling your little POG "war experience" because I will. Buddy in not going to tell you that I understand the suffering of Palestinians because I was a 0311 in Afghanistan fighting a bunch of poor farmers being threatened and bribed by the Taliban. Though I can tell you how a meeting looks and feels like between my commanding officer sitting amongst some villagers in a compound offering 5000 US dollars to apologize for someone in my company shooting their daughter. I can tell you the lost look of a father who is receiving 5000 dollars because their daughter was shot and killed by one of my peers.
Israel isn't doing genocide. If that is what they had wanted to do, they could have done it. They are fighting a defensive war. They need to eliminate the threat. The US weren't doing "genocide" when they fought the Nazis. The Nazis ultimately had to surrender. Then, the war ended. Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran could end things today if they return the hostages and surrender. But since they are a death cult, they won't - yet. Eventually, their people have to turn against them.
So if Israelis do a genocide they would only do it if it's the fastest genocide in human history? How long do you think most genocides are? Days? Weeks? Years?
Whatever massive bombing campaigns the US and the Allied forces did that leveled civilian population centers understand that the allied powers were fighting a conventional war machine that successfully invaded for all intents and purposes all of continental Europe and had the ability to change up the entire world hegomonic order. The stakes were an altering of world powers and who controls international trade and who controls all of Europe. That was a global existential crisis. Hamas is a fart in the wind to the IDF when it comes to conventional warfare. The Palestinian people in Gaza pose no threat in destabilizing the world hegomonic order or invading all of Continental Europe. It is a ludicrous comparison which I assume has to be in bad faith because it's such an easily dissected ludicrous comparison. To believe killing 40,000 civilians to fight some insurgency group that is a fart in the wind when it comes to conventional warfare is like the Allied powers fighting Nazi Germany is not a serious argument. It's a joke argument. An argument only someone who is arguing in bad faith would express.
Iran and Islamism are as big a threat as the Nazis were, possibly a greater threat, because they have already deeply infiltrated Western societies. People like you, other extremist Muslim "sleepers", leftists, etc.
Again. You have your opinion I have mine. This is not a competition to prove who is correct. You do you. I will do me. Neither of us agree with each other and it's all good. And thank you for your service. We ALL SACRIFICED.
You didn't "sacrifice" to learn and gain empathy for people who live in the Levant. I don't know why right wing people when rhetorically cornered always go "I have my opinions and have a right to it". I know dufus. And I don't respect your opinion of dehumanization of Palestinians because you believe ryou guaranteed experience in your vacation in Iraq. And yes I will belittle that experience when you try to use it to dismiss empathy of Palestinians.
Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on who you are talking to or about. I am not a right winger. Grew up one but changed affiliation back 30 years ago when I moved to NY. I could tell you that you are correct and a wonderful empathetic individual and you would still come up with some excuse to be rude. PS not my fault I aced the ASVAB and did not have to serve on the front lines. But I served PROUDLY!! You might be the only soldier I do not care for in the history of my life. Civility is a gift one cultivates and passes to others. I'm sorry you are so infatuated with me. I'm curious what I did to piss you off so much. Take some deep breaths man.
Buddy, Marine infantry is full of crayon eaters. I ain't here to express the idea of a bigger dick than you with my service. I'm expressing a lack of respect towards you for using your God damn dessert storm experience to say you have some valid input on the Israel-Palestinian conflict and use it as a launch point to dismiss the humanity of Palestinians.
Here is the most valid thing I can say. If they didn't attack Israel on October 7th. This thread would not exist. Let that sink in while you come up with another angry retort. God bless you, my friend.
You are talking to a zombie breh This is Thriller @Jontro @CrixusTheUndefeatedGaul @basso @No Worries
No. The Third Punic war was ended by the annihilation of Carthage. World War II was ended by the unconditional surrender of the Axis powers. Yes, half-assing your way through a war thousands of miles away without actually trying to win is a recipe for disaster. Good thing no one is advocating nuking Gaza. Rome didn't fall to Carthage. Rome was the bad guy, against the Jews in Israel. Guess who the good guys were. According to the Muslims, this war has been going on for 80 years (79, but who's counting). If you think libertarians don't believe in the right to defend themselves from terrorists with overwhelming firepower, I don't think you know many libertarians.
