Ya that’s fine, like i said my view of what a bust is different. I consider Wiggins a bust as a number 1 overall pick, you would not, that’s fine. I would consider cade to be a bust so far, but i still have hope he can turn it around, same with jalen. I would view scoot as a bust so far, but again, doesn’t mean he can’t improve and become a good player.
That's not a bust dude. We need the word bust for a specific type of thing. When a player is a 0. We're talking Michael Olowakandi. It's not a guy who almost won player of the month or led a team to 11 straight wins against equally bad teams. You're just talking about players who didn't match projected expectations. That's not a bust. That's just a disappointing pick.
I guess I could see why the crowd that has committed to only judging players based on their raw scoring totals would think Wiggins wasn't a bust.... but you won't find anyone in Minnesota that shares that opinion.
Semantics i suppose. I would almost rather draft someone like Bennett or olo than Wiggins if it means i also am gonna max wiggins. He provided the wolves with what, maybe -100 million in value? Plus lost the 5th pick to dump him? If Wiggins was picked 12th and got a moderate extension I wouldn’t consider him a bust, but for a first pick he’s a total bust.
I thought Wiggins and Jabari Parker were the next generation of basketball.. Also thought Shabazz Muhammed was left handed Kobe. lol I give up on scouting
Exactly. Committing the max dollars to the wrong guy can have very negative consequences down the line. It's exacerbated by robbing potential "right" guys of opportunities for minutes and cap space, especially when we have another 6 in the core 7. Whether Green is a "bust" up to now, or just a disappointment, the matter is the same. The adjectives don't really matter. I am not optimistic, but I'll be ecstatic if he can put it together and be the guy that was promised.
ya pretty much where i am, i loved him as a prospect and after his rookie year i was sure he would be a star, still was very hopeful after year 2 but after year 3 it’s tough. Hope we’re both as wrong as can be!
For those who think he hasn't been a bust thus far.... let's say that you invested 2 million into a restaurant startup and 10 years later the restaurant has lost money every single quarter of its existence.... but they did have 2 really good weeks once. Are you going to consider this investment to be a bust at that point? Are you going to be consoled by the high number of salads they sold despite always losing money?
A lot of our core 7 that many people are high on outside of Sengun people like you would be extremely disappointed in if they were asked to do what Green was from age 19 instead of their helper roles off the bench attacking closeouts, cutting, open transition rather than being asked to create almost all of their own offense against set point of attack defenses. Sengun is the only one I'm certain outside of Jalen to show the highs of being able to do that at a high level. The difference is Sengun shows more consistency with it than Jalen. But Jalen definitely shows the highs of being that type of player you can generate an offense out of their own shear self creation talent. Your have very different opinions of guys like Amen and Cam if they had the same tasks as Green from age 19.
The amount of times you labeled him a bust, I have a good feeling if he makes a star leap basic human ego will make you either post less here or be reluctant to acknowledge any leap and say you need multiple years of him doing it to be confident to give him a max.
I'm not so sure about the limitations you see in Amen and Cam, but I understand where you're coming from. We'll have to wait and see on them and Jalen. I'm looking forward to things getting started next week!
Cam in his current role already averages more turnovers than assists on limited ball handling duties. Amen struggled his rookie year until Ime converted his role from a guard to essentially a big man. They definitely show their limitations with ball handling and on ball creation when half court defenses are set and have their points of attack defense directed towards the primary ball handler. It's primarily because as of now at least, they give up on their handle too easily the moment someone like a second help defender comes up. They stop their dribble too easily at the moment in their careers to be asked to do what Jalen does. Amen I have higher hopes than Cam to maybe get near the level of Jalen's handling and that would be awesome a a uber athletic 6'8" pg has a much higher ceiling than a Uber athletic 6'8" forward.
Jalen had limitations too during his rookie season At least compare apples to apples I'll wait to compare Amen and Cam's 2nd and 3rd year to JGs 2nd and 3rd year
Jalen Green and Cam has the same exact adjusted ts% as 19 year old rookies at 97 ts+. The only difference was Cam scored 30% of his fgs self created and Jalen 50% their respective rookie years and on higher volume. So same efficiency but Jalen did it on much higher volume and with a lot more self creation and didn't manage to average more turnovers than assists like Cam. Amen his rookie year had a 50% self creation rate like Jalen but that is heavily misleading as Amen has the offensive put back volume of bigs so a lot of his "unassisted fgs made" came from put backs rather than creating his own offense. If you strip put backs from the equation, Amen's self creation rate was the same as Cam's. So Green came into the league already asked to generate most of his own offense Green was already splitting doubles with a handle as a rookie.
Green's rookie year was also his best adjusted TS% by far. I think you'd expect most players to improve on their rookie years. It remains to be seen whether or not that is true with Cam, but we already know Jalen has regressed on this stat. I know you can explain away the regression, but I wouldn't use that particular stat as some way to discount Cam.
If Cam ups his ppg volume to 22 ppg and to 60% unassisted rate I'd be content with a small dip in adjusted ts as that's still a net improvement as a much larger role with more self creation barely dipped his efficiency. Jalen from year one to two upped his scoring average by 5 ppg and upped his self creation from 50% to 60% and dipped his ta% barely. That's a net improvement in my view. His third year is where the controversy really begins as he dipped his scoring average but maintained the same self creation rate at 60% but stagnates on efficiency from year 2. But a coaching regime change and being asked to expend just as much effort on defense as a full time starter probably made him have to adjust his conditioning and that effected his scoring. A year under his belt under Ime's expectations for conditioning to expend energy on defense and have high usage on offense hopefully means he can improve his scoring this year. So hopefully his third year was a year he just became a all around more competent player particularly on defense where his scoring suffered because he had to get used to that energy expenditure. These are hopes of course.
