1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Official] Kamala Harris for President 2024

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sajan, Jul 21, 2024.

  1. GOATuve

    GOATuve Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2023
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    3,364
    A lot of Republicans aren't willing to buy into Harris no matter how awful Trump is because she's that bad of a candidate.
     
    basso likes this.
  2. Scarface281

    Scarface281 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,097
    Likes Received:
    4,672
    1. The gender gap isn’t as clear-cut as you’re making it because Trump still performed competitively in key states in 2020 by pulling support from working-class and suburban women (doing better than in 2016), and no one should expect 2024 to be any different. Gender-based voting alone won’t decide the race. And most voters know Kamala was lying when she said Trump wants an abortion ban, which brings me to my next point-

    2. You’re inflating abortion's importance—while it matters, economy, inflation, and immigration remain the top issues for voters across the board by far. The polls and data from 2022 show that voters are far more concerned about financial stability and job security, especially in key swing states, than abortion. The NYT poll is more the outlier.

    3. Gen Z is volatile and historically young voters swing based on immediate issues. So last midterms matter less. Republicans have been making huge strides in areas like free speech and job creation. Zoomers will definitely lean Democrat again, but it'll be a smaller gap than generations before them, as the polls are showing.

    4. You’re dismissing union voters way too easily. Unions still play a massive role in GOTV campaigns in key swing states like PA and MI. Even if they don’t vote in lockstep, their infrastructure is vital for turnout, and the Democrats rely heavily on this in close races. No matter how you look at it, it isn't good for the Dems which is why you see democrats dismissing it now. If they'd have endorsed you'd be singing their praises.

    Your consistently ignore the deeper things at play in this election. This election will still be driven by the economy, voter mobilization, and swing-state politics, where unions and economic concerns dominate.

    Remember Trump has by far the easiest path the victory. Kamala has to hold onto every Biden state and that is not looking likely at all.
     
    basso likes this.
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,694
    Likes Received:
    38,954
    Wanna bet?

    DD
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    Ladies and Gentlemen...

    ...the border czar.

     
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    59,807
    Likes Received:
    132,390
    Right - it isn't that women live in a world with unequal power and status.... or that women have a larger work overload than men... or that women are more likely to be victims or sexual or physical abuse.
     
  6. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    59,807
    Likes Received:
    132,390
    She is against deportation of long term immigrants in the USA.

    She supports a Dreamers type reform like the one Ronald Reagan championed almost 40 years ago.

    The idea of rounding up tens of millions of people, many of them with children born in the USA - with long term spouses, long term jobs -and then deporting them (like Trump has said he will do) if a fundamentally stupid idea.
     
    FranchiseBlade and ROCKSS like this.
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    59,807
    Likes Received:
    132,390
    Agree with this.
     
  8. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,990
    Likes Received:
    13,644
    She’s not a felon, rapist, or authoritarian so again glad you’re choosing to sit this one out.
     
    FranchiseBlade and ROCKSS like this.
  9. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
     
  10. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    You are a lawyer.

    Just curious - can you actually find cases where she was the lead prosecutor? There should be a lot of them, right? She refers to her work often.
     
  11. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,052
    Likes Received:
    23,313
    1- It's not me making up any points; these are simply snapshots provided by national polls.

    2- Once again, I’m not inflating anything. These are just snapshots from various polls, and abortion consistently ranks as a top three issue in multiple polls from different pollsters.

    3- It’s well-documented that Gen Z is significantly more challenging to poll, which might explain why their voices aren't accurately captured. The most reliable data for young, digital-age voters comes from their actual voting results.

    4- I'm not dismissing anything. I didn’t even mention unions. I’m unsure where you’re getting your information, but conservative media has expressed concerns about Trump’s campaign GOTV strategies (lack of)

    Your last point is factually incorrect. Biden secured 306 Electoral College votes, which clearly indicates that Harris doesn’t need to win every state that Biden won to reach 270. If you can’t even get this basic fact right, perhaps you should reconsider your criticisms of others for overlooking deeper issues.
     
    Andre0087, FranchiseBlade and ROCKSS like this.
  12. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    7,456
    Likes Received:
    7,927
    I get that maga types and the ones who will only vote for a red candidate, but if you're really serious about comparing Harris to Trump based on your theory of "bad", you're not being genuine about trump. I have people I deal with who are in the "she slept her way to the top" and wont vote for her but then excuse him being a rapist and trying to overthrow the government, not to mention the dozen other deplorable things he has done............If the gop had put a sane moderate in, several on this board including myself would have looked hard at them as I did with Christi and Haley.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,052
    Likes Received:
    23,313
    I think you can replace Harris with anyone, and this statement still holds true. It's the 'D' in front of their name.

    That said, Harris is the first Democratic nominee for president to make a concerted and direct effort to win over traditional Republicans. She certainly has a historic level of endorsements from Republicans. We'll see how that translates into actual Republican votes for her.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    59,807
    Likes Received:
    132,390
    The gender gap in 2024 is very clear cut - Trump is incredibly unpopular with women and it cuts across just about every demographic. It isn't a shock about why women do not like Trump based on his comments, conduct with women and the downfall of Roe v. Wade. Trump was -14 with women in 2016 (against a woman), -15 in 2020 and now is somewhere between -18 and -23 with women in 2024........ and the biggest difference is that Trump has been losing the support of white women consistently since 2016. Trump has done better with men each election - and that continues this cycle, but he has not added enough men to make up for the defection of white women.

    I agree that the economy and immigration are more important than abortion, because both matter across the gender spectrum - while abortion matters more to women, especially young women. Having said that - it is still an important issue, one of the top 5 issues - especially in a close election.

    Gen Z is not more conservative than prior generations - they are not brand loyal though. The problem is that Gen Z doesn't like Trump - they have a higher negative view of him than the electorate as a whole. Also - Gen Z is EXTREMELY divided based on sex. Women in Gen Z are more liberal than ever, while men are more conservative.

    Unions matter in a close election - but they are not as important as in the past. Union members vote differently than years ago and unions have less power than in the past. Also, most Unions still are supporting Harris - the UAW, AFL-CIO, USW, UEW - all bigger than the Teamster Union are still backing Harris. Even within the Teamsters, the local chapters in key battle ground areas like Philadelphia came out and publicly supported Harris.

    Also - the Teamsters do not always support Democrat candidates, they did not support Clinton over Dole - and they didn't in one of the Bush elections as well.

    Keep in mind that all the unions are different and have different demographics and jobs - for example the AFL-CIO union is bigger than the Teamsters and their Union leader said that their internal polling showed support for Harris is very high. Also - the LOCAL Teamster Unions are the ones that do the door to door knocking and grass roots stuff.

    Even in 2020 - Biden only got 55% from Union households - it isn't the 1960's anymore, people make their own decisions and it has been headed that way for awhile now.

    I can't give you a great prognostication on who is going to win - I think it is a relative toss up at this point because of the electoral college. Harris is going to win the popular vote, but she could lose the Electoral College.

    Also the idea that Harris has to hold onto every state is somewhat not true - there are states that Trump won in 2020 where he is vulnerable in 2024 and could lose.
     
    Invisible Fan likes this.
  15. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    59,807
    Likes Received:
    132,390
    Fetterman is right - everyone knows that Trump is a scumbag - there is no point in constantly pointing it out or dragging him into court.

    Pennsylvania is going to a dog fight for BOTH Trump and Harris.

    Anyone that thinks they can call Pennsylvania now is lying.
     
  16. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,576
    Likes Received:
    7,100
    [
    Pretty sure they are saying education, not agitation
     
    Agent94 and AroundTheWorld like this.
  17. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    Yes I think you are right. Although it sometimes sounds like it could be either.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    Would you agree that the "dragging him into court" is almost entirely politically motivated?
     
  19. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    59,807
    Likes Received:
    132,390
    No - as a District Attorney, she would oversee and appoint who would actually in court fighting. Now, when she started out in Oakland (I believe it was Oakland) she was an assistant and definitely had to try cases, I don't think that any one in the DA could get out of trying cases, as there are way too many.

    Same with being Attorney General - she would be the boss.... it is why you will find people that will blame her or praise her as DA of San Francisco and the AG - because she gets/credit blame either way, even though she is not the one usually in the Courtroom but is the boss.

    From what I have read and know - she wasn't this massive liberal reformer when she was DA and then AG. For example, she personally was against the Death Penalty, but then defended the Death Penalty in California as an option.
     
  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,046
    The gender gap in the workplace remains a complex issue.

    Society places expectations for women to pause their careers and pop out a couple of babies during their prime career stages. There are also criticism that women are more open to fight for "work-life balance" over career growth (personal exploitation), which sounds insane if you look at things objectively rather than from either standpoint.

    There's still a lot of cultural baggage of underpaying women. Top female actresses still get paid much less than top male actors. Their staying power is also much shorter for obvious reasons. It does level out in some fields when you compare hours worked inside a salaried position but those are mostly circumstantial with harder to repeat numbers.

    If our government planners are serious about increasing birthrates, they should probably tackle this issue earnestly and honestly. Family incentives like a 5k tax breaks are nice, but this is Captialism and it rewards families and not women inside families individually.

    Vance loves talking about Childless Cat Ladies but his side is all about a dog eat dog way of life.

    [​IMG]
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.

Share This Page