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Climate-Related Disasters

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by rimrocker, Jun 5, 2023.

  1. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Already one of the largest fires in California history.
    _______

    Park Fire: Latest updates, evacuation information as California wildfire passes 307K acres

    The Park Fire, California's largest wildfire since the 2021 Dixie Fire, has led to evacuation orders in Butte, Tehama and Shasta counties, destroyed at least 134 structures and threatened thousands more.

    It's burned more than 307,000 acres since a suspected arsonist pushed a flaming vehicle into a gully on Wednesday afternoon off Upper Park Road in Butte County's Upper Bidwell Park.

    https://www.kcra.com/article/park-f...updates-butte-tehama-shasta-counties/61715936
     
  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    This is really interesting -- poor planning/ engineering and massive flooding are creating a dangerous situation again (what a surprise).
     
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  3. Buck Turgidson

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    The 3 Gorges Dam was a massive disaster even before it was built.
     
  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    ROCKSS and MadMax like this.
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I’m really everywhere tbh
     
  6. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    Ugh, after a hurricane, we could have been using "state of calamity" all these years.
     
  7. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Portugal, given its history, has a much higher percentage of urban interface than the US. They, like many countries, are losing rural populations which means small parcels of land that were once farms or wineries have been reforested after centuries. This allows fire to hopscotch across the landscape and exposes more communities to fire. The one advantage they have over the US is that their homes and buildings are mostly tile roofs and stone/stucco/hardened sides--get some ember wash on a US house and the odds are it is gone. Having a mostly Mediterranean climate, the changing conditions including heat and drought, have accelerated fire danger in the country beyond historical norms and expectations. In this latest firestorm, three firefighters have died so far.

    They are not used to this kind of fire behavior. Roads are open that would absolutely be shut down in the US. Towns are not evacuated. "Volunteers" show up on the fire line. Just about every country that has been coming online for major wildfires over the last decade is in the same place. It's hard to change laws and policies when you can tell yourself that the latest bad time was just a one-off and things will soon go back to normal. It's easy to think you just need more firefighters, engines, and aircraft instead of different strategies and acceptance of previous unimagined trade-offs. It's very human to think your structure forces can handle wildland fires and so there is no need to invest in a wildland firefighting force. Most of Europe is in that spot right now, working with decades-old systems and assumptions. They have a lot of work to do on public education and policy.

    Several people have been arrested for starting fires. I doubt they meet our image of an arsonist. My guess is that they did stuff they had been doing their whole lives and until now, it had been no big deal. We see it in the US all the time--tossing cigarettes, something like trailer chains dragging from a vehicle, disposing of charcoal used for cooking by dumping it in the back corner of the yard, burning yard debris, burning trash, etc. Again, the assumptions people live by need to change to better reflect the reality of today and especially what is coming.



    Portugal is roughly 350 miles x 105 miles, or about the size of Indiana.
    [​IMG]
     
    #447 rimrocker, Sep 19, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2024
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    With the very big fires in Spain recently you would think Portugal would’ve prepared better but I guess it’s hard to think it will happen to you even when your neighbors burn down.
     
  9. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    The EU as a whole has done better and is starting to develop good protocols for sharing resources. Still, it's just more stuff for the same tactics. You go read wildland fire forums/FB groups in Spain, Portugal, Greece, France, etc. and the issues are all the same--inadequate training, minimal supplies, minimal leadership, minimal governmental support except when a fire makes the news, no acknowledgement that wildland fire is as complex as structure, crap pay, no recognition of the stress created, no mental health support, etc. And as I said, too many people are still working under the assumptions that held when they were young and being trained. It took a good 15 years for those of us who saw the rapid change happening and coming to oust the old guard from leadership positions and reform training to emphasize strategy instead of brute tactics. It was not pretty and a number of careers suffered because of it. They are where we were in 2000-2005 and it will take a new generation to make a big difference.

    There should be a huge number of academics looking at the organizational psychology of wildland fire and emergency management and response groups. There's more than a few dissertations worth of good problems.
     
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  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    This isn’t my field but I know in architecture we have been seeing changes in building codes in response to greater fire dangers, higher winds, and also for greater energy efficiency. We actually can build faster, stronger and cheaper than what we do but the problem is that the building industry is very tradition bound and most of the construction that people see are using methods hundreds of years old.
     
  11. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    [​IMG]

    It's dropped another 6-8 feet since 1977.
     
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Mining groundwater.
     
  13. Buck Turgidson

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    Forget it, KC, it's Chinatown
     
  14. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    That's the Owens Valley, not the San Joaquin. A great book on the subject is Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Buck Turgidson

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    I know you're a Western man, but learn some things and then talk to me about the water crisis in Texas.

    Please. Help me make them understand.
     
  16. Mango

    Mango Member

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  17. Mango

    Mango Member

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    Many many years ago, I saw a slide presentation about changing irrigation practices/methods for row crops to ways that controlled water usage. I don't think that irrigation practices/methods have changed that much even though the suggestions to do so came out long ago.


    The Grass (Sod, Turf) Farms to the West - Southwest of Houston have irrigation wells hundreds of feet deep. Water wells for homes and small cattle operations will often be less than 200 feet deep. Unconfirmed, but I have heard that letting a Grass Farm being operated on one's land pays quite well. More than what a farmer can net from running cattle or raising row crops such as Cotton, Corn, Maize/Milo/Grain Sorghum. But the increased water usage and depletion of the water table by the Grass Farm is a long term cost that isn't being factored in.
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

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    https://www.texastribune.org/2024/09/20/texas-oil-wells-hydrogen-sulfide-caldwell-county/
     
    Mango likes this.

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