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At least two women in Georgia died after they couldn't access medical cares

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Sep 16, 2024.

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  1. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    Trump told us in the debate that was what the people wanted.
     
    #21 FranchiseBlade, Sep 17, 2024
    No Worries likes this.
  2. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

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    I am glad to have heard this news. That means the law is working as intended. Thank you Republicans, and thank you SCOTUS.
     
    #22 TheRealist137, Sep 17, 2024
  3. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    What do you mean by radio silence?
     
    #23 pgabriel, Sep 17, 2024
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Thanks

    Georgetown University's Health Policy Institute who does research on different issues in healthcare promotes teaching about cultural competency n healthcare.

    That's what it's called, cultural competency, teaching healthcare professionals to deal with cultural differences


    https://hpi.georgetown.edu/cultural/

    It's also promoted by the American Hospital Association

    https://www.aha.org/ahahret-guides/... acknowledges,to meet culturally unique needs.
     
    #24 pgabriel, Sep 17, 2024
  5. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I don't understand why the hospital was worried. It seems like they should have understood it was life threatening, why even consider

    Was she getting an abortion because of complications in the first place in North Carolina?
     
    #25 pgabriel, Sep 18, 2024
  6. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    The way the law is written makes doctors hesitant to act because they don’t want to risk going to jail. You might think the rules are clear, but legally, they aren't, and doctors could still face jail time. This is happening not just in Ga but in other states with similar laws. Doctors in these states are likely following the advice of their hospitals and lawyers, which should tell us something about how unclear and risky the situation is. There have been many similar cases of denial of health care, but these are the first ones we know of where preventable deaths occurred because of these laws.
     
    #26 Amiga, Sep 18, 2024
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  7. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I understand they don't want to go to jail but life "threatening" isn't definite. It's threatening if that's the way the law is written

    An NPR story about a similar situation and a doctor's opinion. Not all doctors agree it's complicated.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-want-to-defy-abortion-laws-say-its-too-risky

    "Not all doctors agree that the abortion restrictions are responsible for harming patients. Dr. Christine Francis of the American Association of Pro-Life Ob-Gyns, has written that the suggestion that these laws interfere with the treatment of miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies and other life-threatening conditions is "absurd.""

    Edit: yes she is pro life
     
    #27 pgabriel, Sep 18, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2024
  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Ultimately, it’s up to each doctor to decide, with guidance from their lawyers and hospitals, whether the risk is worth it. That speaks louder than any single opinion or even a court ruling (the TX Supreme Court made a similar point—leaving the decision to doctors but not making it easier for them).

    The solution is straightforward: the state should stay out of healthcare decisions and not criminalize doctors for making medical judgments about when to provide care. When the state steps in to criminalize these decisions, doctors become overly cautious, which harms their patients’ health.
     
    #28 Amiga, Sep 18, 2024
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  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    No doctor has been prosecuted
     
    #29 pgabriel, Sep 18, 2024
  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    I have never been prosecuted for armed robbery. That doesn't mean that if I commit armed robbery, I have nothing to fear. I will make sure that I don't commit armed robbery to avoid that prosecution.
     
    #30 FranchiseBlade, Sep 18, 2024
  11. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Yes, but the law is such that the risk is there.

    Don’t take this the wrong way, but I wanted to see where you are coming from. Are you blaming doctors for not risking jail time?
     
    #31 Amiga, Sep 18, 2024
  12. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Im saying it doesn't seem to be a complicated decision in the hospital. Any risk to the woman to have a baby is justifiable
     
    #32 pgabriel, Sep 18, 2024
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    That's a stupid analogy.
     
    #33 pgabriel, Sep 18, 2024
  14. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    You say that because you have a judgment. The state has its own judgment. Thus, your judgment, the doctor's, or the mother's is no longer the only one that counts. As soon as the state has a judgment, the risk of jail time is present, and that’s enough to make doctors hesitant to take necessary actions. It SHOULD NOT BE COMPLICATED - any risk to a woman should be treated, but it cannot out of fear of jail time.
     
    #34 Amiga, Sep 18, 2024
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  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    The state's judgement is based on law.

    This woman in severe pain.
     
    #35 pgabriel, Sep 18, 2024
  16. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    @Amiga

    Again that's why I asked and we may never know because of privacy laws why she was seeking an abortion
     
    #36 pgabriel, Sep 18, 2024
  17. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Based on the law, which isn't clear, "severe pain" is not an exception. I mentioned the TX Supreme Court case that left the decision to the doctors but didn’t help them with that. It would NOT define standard protocol. Without a defined protocol, it's up to the state to judge and prosecute as they see fit, and then it's up to the jury to decide.

    From the article:

    Take the language in Georgia’s supposed lifesaving exceptions.

    It prohibits doctors from using any instrument “with the purpose of terminating a pregnancy.” While removing fetal tissue is not terminating a pregnancy, medically speaking, the law only specifies it’s not considered an abortion to remove “a dead unborn child” that resulted from a “spontaneous abortion” defined as “naturally occurring” from a miscarriage or a stillbirth.

    Thurman had told doctors her miscarriage was not spontaneous — it was the result of taking pills to terminate her pregnancy.

    There is also an exception, included in most bans, to allow abortions “necessary in order to prevent the death of the pregnant woman or the substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function.” There is no standard protocol for how providers should interpret such language, doctors said. How can they be sure a jury with no medical experience would agree that intervening was “necessary”?    ​
     
    #37 Amiga, Sep 18, 2024
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  18. jchu14

    jchu14 Member

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    The medical exception in Georgia's state law says that the operation would be permissible if

    https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/legislation/document/20192020/187013

    So the woman being in pain or being in a life threatening situation isn't enough of a justification under the law. Life threatening just means that there is potential for death. The law requires the condition to be 'necessary to prevent death' or 'substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function'.

    So a doctor in GA can still be criminally charged if the operation is performed too early.
     
    #38 jchu14, Sep 18, 2024
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  19. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    herself. That
    When i say she was in severe pain it seems to indicate she was in danger. Life threatening may not be clear but it doesn't seem to indicate she will definitely die but she is in danger.

    I I know a doctor doesn't want to be a test case but it is also a stretch for a state to prosecute when a doctor has already done a medical evaluation. It's still a medical case and doctors im sure have assurances based on the fact they are licensed.

    What could the issue be if as I understand from the article she had already miscarried. The baby fetus was already gone?

    @jchu14
     
    #39 pgabriel, Sep 18, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2024
  20. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    The second woman tried to perform abortion on herself.
     
    #40 pgabriel, Sep 18, 2024
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