I'm pretty sure that if you are rude/disrespectful to any other public servant that doesn't have the authority of a cop, then nothing is likely to happen to you. Being a public servant is a thankless job. I've worked for the City of Houston and when I was out on site visits, I sometimes encountered rude citizens that gave me an earful and were angry about their public services. Even though I could of mouth of at them, I didn't, because I kept my composure and professionalism. In this case, we have rights based on the constitution. Cops need to learn to deal with rude people, with assholes, and many of them do, despite it being irritating, it is still part of their job. You are missing the point though, a cop does not get to use excessive force just because you were rude to them. That's all Tyreek was, he was rude, he didn't obey a lawful command although he had already handed over his ID and registration so he did not impede their investigation/traffic stop. I don't disagree with you about how people are treated, I definitely think everyone should be treated with respect and I do think Tyreek needs to learn to conduct himself better, he could of simply said: "Excuse me officer, could you please not tap on my window like that?" and he could of also said, "Excuse me officer, can I please put my window up now that I've handed over my information to you?" Yep, he could of done better, but the case stands that cops can't violate your rights simply because their feelings get hurt. You can argue all you want about that, but there is a reason we have freedom of speech, even if that means flicking off an officer.
We don't chastise poor behavior enough What makes you believe the cop used, "excessive force" - You're just throwing that out there as if its a matter of fact nobody could disagree with. I reject the notion. Tyreek was lawfully stopped, during a lawful traffic stop a LEO has authority to give commands/directions to persons and have them obeyed, you said yourself they were not obeyed. That is a crime. The LEO has to have some sort of power to correct or discipline the person for their non-compliance. In this case, Hill was removed from his vehicle and placed in custody. What is "excessive" about that? Was he beaten? injured? detained for a prohibitive amount of time? What is the appropriate way to sanction Hills conduct here? Or do we not sanction such conduct and just allow people to treat LEO like Hill treated them? That's what you want?
Freedom of speech only protects you from the government meaning you can criticize the government without being punished like in communism. It does NOT mean that you can talk crap to the police. The flipping of the bird is a tricky one (technically it is protected by the first amendment), but I wouldn't advise you on doing it.
1. What was the goal of the stop? The goal was to give the driver a citation 2. Was Tyreke Hill interfering the with ability of the officer giving said citation No. Tyreke Hill give required information such as drivers license to the officer. At this step in a typical traffic stop the officer walks back to their squad car to check on if there are outstanding warrants or if the drivers license is in bad standing such as if the license is suspended. Then they physically write the citation and walk back to the pulled over vehicle. 3. Did the rolling up of the window after handing the required information interfere with the original purpose of the pull over? No it did not. At this point the reason the officer shouts commands and stops his typical procedure is because his authority (ego) was challenged. Tyreke Hill said something along the lines of "get it over with" before rolling the window up which even implies he was going to accept whatever citation the officer was giving. He just wasn't going to use curtious language to express wanting to get this over with quick. It was a combo of Hill telling the officer how to do his job, probably also being a wealthy black man in a expensive super car that triggered this officer into carrying or his next set of actions purely out of a harmed ego. We don't use tax payer funds to protect the ego of cops. We pay officers to be trained not to have their fee fees hurt. Stop being a bootlicker.
I'm happy to continue advocating for people to conduct themselves appropriately in society and treat others, including public servants, with deference, respect and accommodation. You can continue to excuse and therefore condone and promote disrespect, non-compliance, boorishness and poor conduct which is a blight on our society well recognized by most
Are tax dollars being funded towards Tyreke Hill to be trained in desesecaltion? Maybe that is the framing that works with you. If there was a reason why I consider American libertarianism fake. It's because most self labeled libertarians I meet express the same bootlicking mentality of law enforcement as you.
Are officers required to hold Tyreeks hand and ask him about his feelings? Are they required to follow some sort of de-escalation protocol they didn't? Are persons non-complying during a traffic stop not subject to being placed in custody?
Excessive force is what you saw in the video. I'm not just throwing it out there for the sake of throwing it out there. The officer gave the man less than 5 seconds after he said get out of the car to allow Tyreek to get out of the car. That's not reasonable time, especially after Tyreek had buckled himself (after the officer asked him why he wasn't buckled in). Tyreek seem like he was unbuckling and he was opening the door but at that point the cop went into rage mode. You keep talking about how he was rude. Look man, the law doesn't state you cannot be rude. If the cop believes that there is reasonable suspicion to put Tyreek under arrest such as disobeying a lawful command, then he needs to do so. He needs to let Tyreek know "Sir, I'm going to put you under arrest for failing to comply with my lawful command, please step out of the vehicle." Then he needs to give Tyreek reasonable time to exit said vehicle. If Tyreek doesn't comply, then by all means, break his window and bring him out by force. I'm not asking you to agree and condone Tyreek's behavior. I'm asking you to be pragmatic and think about the situation and take your feelings out of it. I know you are talking from a position where Tyreek's attitude warranted being treated the way he was. I'm asking you to look at this situation and if it was reasonable for Tyreek to be drug out like he was. If you do agree with it, well that is not normal sir. You treat people with respect even if they disrespect you, that's what makes a good cop.
Do you know why I just copy and pasted my previous reply? Because I already expressed the notion that there was no need to "hold hands". The officer didn't have to do anything to go out of his way to carry out the mission of the intent of why he pulled over the vehicle. He pulled over the vehicle to issue a speeding ticket. If he wasn't wearing a seat belt he can also issue a seat belt violation citation. Tyreke Hill's goal was to make this stop as quick as possible. He immediately handed the information that he knew the officer was going to need. The litigation of these issues can be dealt in a court summons if Tyreke Hill went dto fight these citations on his own time. The officer actually went out of his way to make the stop more difficult because his ego was hurt.
I did. I said that you misrepresented what I expect from a pfficert as "hand holding" when the officer went out of his way to make the actual goal of the stop more difficult. Ignoring the b****ing of a civilian getting a citation when that civilian is complying rather expediently to what the officer needs to create the citation is not "hand holding". It's "my ego really is more secure than a random frustrated civilian saying some mean things while complying to my goal of issuing a citation". At the end of the day Tyreke Hill was complying with the goals of the officer of issuing a citation by immediately complying to give out documentation when asked. Rolling up the windows after giving said documentation where the cop usually goes back to their squad car to write it up is not interfering with the goal of issuing a citarion. So therefore the officer went out of his way to escalate because his ego was offended.
He ignored directives from new orders where those new orders are based on a damaged ego. What Tyreke Hill was doing before said new order was not interfering with the goals of the officer when he pulled him over. He gave documentation the officer asked for and rolled up the window because he assumed that's the part where the cop goes back to his squad car to write up the ticket. You literally hear Hill say ,"just get it over with quickly". Again, the new order was based off a damaged ego.
Honestly this is a very similar situation to Sandra Bland. She got pulled over for an illegal lane change, officer got the documentation and she in a negative tone expressed the desire to get this ticket written quickly and then cop goes ape shot from that. Neither Sandra Bland or Tyreke Hill were interfering with the officer's duty of issuing a citation.
Again, the issue isn't about Hill's behavior. Everyone agrees, including Hill himself, that his behavior wasn't ideal. So again, simply because the citizen didn't lick the guy's boots, doesn't give the officer cart blanche to do as he pleases.
I hope everything you just said, you also apply that same standard to Trump. But as Trump very well knows, it's not unlawful to treat people with disrespect.
This is why understanding of the 4th amendment is important. Then maybe you will have a better understanding of the law and what are lawful orders how they differ depending on the stop.
. True but its also important not to break the law and you if do its very important to comply. Otherwise get down on the floor Or let the bodies hit the floor
My understanding of the 4th Amendment is that it wouldn’t prohibit an LEO from issuing an order for a suspect to roll down their car window and keep it rolled down. It wouldn’t prevent an order requiring someone to exit their car during a traffic stop. It wouldn’t prevent use of force to enforce such orders. I agree that orders like that and use of force should be considered carefully and appropriate to the threat. This is why I will still say they both Hill and the LEO share blame for the situation. Since Sandra Bland was brought up I will note that Hill was cuffed and thrown to the ground he wasn’t put into jail and held over weekend. That raises other due process issues which weren’t here.
