You are really squinting hard to find something to support your optimism for Jalen. That's fine. I guess that's what fans are supposed to do, right? Just don't categorize people who doubt the likelihood of his stardom as "haters" because there are much more obvious evidence to support the doubt. Unlike the "late" breakout examples you picked, the lack of progression with Jalen is concerning. I was holding hope for him (and actually fought against Jalen negativity) for two seasons. The third season was a huge downer for me. Still I pushed back on the "trade him while he still has value" crowd. Now the third season is over. It's time for him to prove his doubters wrong because he is running out of time, at least for the Rockets.
I'm sorry. I feel like you experienced trauma from Jalen letting you down. I wonder if people read my posts or just the first line of my sentence. I think I might have to shorten my posts so people read them in entirety because apparently people have very bad literacy patience. I say this because I literally said word for word that Jalen reaching SGA level is LESS THAN LIKELY. I even explicitly stated that my points about SGA or Green's second to third year experience surprising his scoring improvements are mere things to CONSIDER. So to say what you just typed about me being triggered at people who question stardom of Jalen Green is kinda funny when I explicitly stated that's it's less than a50% chance he reaches the heights of SGA. Like am I triggered at my own evaluation of Green?
Also believing that Jalen has had the worst of everything. He was hit by Silas coaching most, he was hit by kpj most, by tanking most, he always had 3 men on him, the best defenders, the lane was clogged, didn't play in a playoff team, he always took bail out shots.... Literally one disadvantage for every criticism. It is more of a perception thing than anything else.
Rocket fans are discussing things. Are you one of those people that struggle with literacy patience and ignore all the measures hold backs I have of Jalen? The mere expression of context just triggers you. It offends you. Why?
Yeah, not thinking that everything in the world holds Green back, that he is in some extremely unique disadantegous circumstances == ignoring everything. That's where the fandom ends and it turns into a stupid thing, just attacking everyone around, thinking that you are the one that is measurable and everyone else is either ignorant, traumatized, hater, jater, hopes that jalen will fail.
in reality because of rockets tanking, silas, he had all the chances, minutes, possessions, shots, green light.. and still not his fault he's jordan poole volume and efficiency behind the arc
The Silas years was not good for anyone, but thinking in an alternative scenario everything would have been much better for Green is not realistic either. And Sengun improved more even though he got the 'sengun treatment' from silas. I think Green potentially has a very bright future ahead of him. But some of the arguments here about his past performance are just out of hand, in both directions.
Some people seem to overlook this obvious fact. I assume it's because it doesn't fit their narrative.
Yes, but you cannot blame Silas for lack of fundamentals because that is what you should have focused on when they were teenagers and since childhood. The Turkish youth national teams trained Alperen to be that player that he was in his rookie year and in the Turkish league.
Sorry but it shouldn't need to be explained that a HS'er (aside from 1 month of bubble g league) suffered more without any guidance than did a guy who was a pro in one of the best leagues in the world before joining the NBA. People need fundamentals + skills + physical conditioning. The one that needs fundamentals most is proper-f*cked if the HC sucks balls and the culture is terrible. Everyone suffered, not just Jalen. You're going to see it next season. Our whole core had their development slowed down. No one really improved. Tari is the same guy he was two months into his NBA career. Three first round picks were dumped. If you ignore volume, Sengun has not improved. Sengun has NOT improved as much as he would have in a good environment. He was just the most prepared of our draft picks. He was a pro player competing for a high value championship in front of rabid fans and against FIBA-calibre players. He was playing to feed his family and it wasn't easy for him like it is for elite HS and college players. I can't believe @AlperenSengun spent so much time talking up the Turkish League and can't understand how that factors in here. No hate but you're contradicting yourself bro. I WISH Green had to earn his starting spot like Sengun did from the bench. That's the Kobe model (not that Silas intended it or anything). Green needed to learn professionalism and winning mentality before anything else. The was the most lacking aspect of our rebuild. It's so obvious.
Don’t let people effect you here for being a well thought out, well reasoned, and generally positive person. As well we ALL know there are people in this world that are just plain unhappy and they have internet connections like everyone else to then lash out etc. They get to do that without showing their face with generally no repercussions. The world would be a rather miserable if everyone was like the latter. Moping around with negativity. Go get some sunlight and/or laid. Get some exercise do something! Otherwise keep your insults to yourself if at all possible. News flash that’s why people like others that are self deprecating and not those that are being rude to others constantly.
I have been arguing that the Silas years slowed down everybody's development. That's the dumbest part of the tanking strategy. I think what causes many people's pessimism about Jalen was his 3rd season performance under Udoka. Everybody (Sengun, Jabari, Tari for limited time) improved quite significantly--everybody except Jalen. Even the rookies (one of whom also played in a less "fundamental" environment than college ball) did well after half of the season. That's the crux of the pessimism. Jalen had a fantastic month of March. That gave a lot of people, including me, some renewed hope. If he kept it till the end of the season, it would have been even more promising. But alas, he pretty much reverted back to his former self in April. It is not unreasonable to wonder whether we are going to see 1 or 2 months of great Jalen and 4 or 5 months of bad Jalen every season. It's not hating. It's not being "miserable." It's just natural reaction to disappointment.
Jalen Green blew out his previous seasons in terms of advanced metrics that people care about so much like VORP. I think you are isolating your view of Green as just a scorer. Could you possibly see his third season as trying to improve being competent at things like defense before talking a step forward in scoring?
Stars shine regardless and independent of who the coach is.... McGrady had a no name Butch Carter as coach in Toronto and then young Doc Rivers who was unknown for development in Orlando. Still put up a show on both Defense and Offense.
I mean Jalen absolutely shined more offensively than Mcgrady in their first few years. Both were below league average efficiency for their time in their first three seasons... The difference was that Jalen has a top ten all time scoring average in league history for a player before turning 22 and Mgrast isn't even close. Mcgrady definitely shined more defensively in his first few seasons. Both did what they did on crap 20ish win teams. If Mcgrady shined, Jalen shined.
"Blew out" is a bit of exaggeration, isn't it? The team practically doubled their wins last season over the previous two years. Their offensive efficiency jumped 3 full points, from 28th to 20th. Of course everybody's VORP got boosted. (BTW, VORP is also an offensive metric. I thought Jalen's main improvement was in defense.) But let's play your squinting game to prove my point: VORP, 1st sesaon, 2nd season, 3rd season Sengun 0.4, 1.9, 3.5 Jalen -0.5, 0.0, 1.0 Jabari -1.1, 1.0 Amen 1.3
I don't know what the intent of this reply was? I was replying to your comment about Jalen not improving in his third year. Did I say others didn't improve?
so the double teams is causing Jalen to shoot as bad as Poole? so he just pass the ball instead of forcing inefficient shots
You were replying to my post that said everybody improved significantly except Jalen. You said he "blew out" his previous seasons' metrics. The whole team made great progress. Relative to the team as a whole and other individual young teammates (what I listed for you), Jalen's improvement actually lagged behind. Most reasonable people agree that Jalen did improve, mostly on the defensive side. He showed little progress on offense other than the flashes. BTW, if Jalen never showed flashes in his first two seasons, the surge last March might have indicated that he finally got something together. The problem is, he also showed similar flashes (albeit not as lengthy) even in his rookie season. The irony is that those flashes actually dampen rather than heighten the March excitement. Sort of... been there, seen that.
