A player could have different journeys to their route to statistical stardom. If Green has fourth year SGA numbers, I'm sure posters like you will say he's not worthy of a max which is kinda funny. Jalen averaging 24 ppg on 57% ts on a 24 win team ain't going to get you a max. That is barely an improvement over his second year. But apparently it's enough that if you existed during SGA's end of fourth season you'd predict he's a future MVP candidate. It's that cognitive dissonance that is funny.
I would take an SGA year 4 output as enough of an indicator to give Jalen that rookie max or near it. What bolstered SGA's case was stronger efficiency in the two years prior though.
Shrodinger's "improvement". On one hand Jalen Green stagnating on scoring efficiency is a sign of not being able to be a future MVP candidate. But on the other hand SGA regressing in his fourth year is a sign he's a future MVP candidate. So Jalen Green improving in his fourt year isn't a positive indication he can reach sga level yet sga regressing in his fourth year means he's a future MVP candidate? SGA's fourth year numbers are a marginal improvement over Green's second year numbers which was 22 ppg on 54% ts on a 22 win team vs 24 ppg on 55% ts. on a 24 win team. If Green averages 24 ppg on 57% ts this season on a 24 win team now he's a future sga level player? Okay I don't see the people critical of Green buying into that.
Another thing that this is telling me is if we kept the Silas regime, it would apparently better for the discourse of Jalen Green on this forum even thoguh for me it would be worse for Green's actual career. Because if we kept Silas and didn't add FVV, you don't think he'd make marginal improvements in his scoring from year two to three from 22 ppg on 54% TS to maybe 24 ppg on 55% ts? It would be bad for his overall development and team development as the team would still win in the mid 20s but his scoring numbers would look better and very similar to 4th year SGA production. So now these same people like yourself would be like "he's on a sga trajectory"?
I literally said I would take that as an indicator. I can't speak for others. One year of regression amongst a larger course of work with higher efficiency for a young player is not something I'd be overly concerned about. Poor efficiency (worse than the SGA regression) for 4 straight years would be concerning.
Large course of work? He had three seasons, one of which he missed more than half the season. You can't get much pattern recognition from that can you?
You're saying playing alongside a veteran, stable point guard hurt his efficiency? Another year of KPJ and Silas would do more for his efficiency? I personally don't think that's the case. Are you contending he'd have shot better with less focus on the defensive end? His improved defense is a saving grace with me. If he hadn't made that step, I'd be more pessimistic.
Absolutely it would be better for his scoring numbers and only his scoring numbers if the same regime was kept. Thermodynamic laws apply to basketball players. Ime changed the entire expectations of what is allowed on the court. Jalen Green was asked for the first time in his career to expend as much energy as he does on offense as he does on defense. That is a conditioning thing that will make him have tired legs for the first year or so of having those expectations on him And then there was an adjustment to offensive roles where he had to get used to "Senhub". A consistent carry over of roles and expectations and energy output requirements means it would effect his scoring numbers positively. Do you think Jalen literally just lost scoring talent from year two to three? Apply some basic common sense here on what is more likely. Green magically lost some scoring talent, or new regime, new expectations etc effected his scoring output? If the Silas regime continues, I have no doubt Green would marginally improve his scoring numbers from year two but the team would be in the mid 20s in wins and Jalen wouldn't improve on any other aspect of winning basketball like defense. There is a reason why he blew out his previous advanced metric numbers like VORP in his third season.
If shai had jalens first 3 years and his own 4th i would have said he’s not worth the max, obviously. But he didn’t, he showed clear progress including an elite 109 season
FWIW - - the Silas years, either due to Silas (&/) or FO, were nearly valueless for anyone’s development, save Alpi. Thus and so IMHO judging JG’s worth or JChris or Bari’s is fool’s work.
Shai also got maxed after his monster season so his 4th season, the only one where he didn’t show massive improvement was after he got paid. I don’t think okc would have maxed him if he sucked his first 3 seasons
Yeah that one seems to be a down year in his trajectory as a player in terms of efficiency. I still don't think comparing him with Jalen is fair to Jalen. Those OKC teams were even more atrocious than us and even in that down year he scored very high numbers with bad but not terrible efficiency. One aspect of Shai's growth I find valuable to discuss in the context Jalen's growth is the perfectness of Shai's conditions. He played playoff basketball in his first two years alongside vets like Paul George and Chris Paul. He had two years to develop as a first option in a stress-free environment in his third and fourth seasons. His team did not have any prospects with high potential except him until JDub was drafted. These are very optimal conditions for a guard to develop. Jalen, unfortunately, is not as lucky as him. He has to work in a much more minimal timetable and prove things faster. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Jalen's 3 seasons whether individually or averaged are still worse than Shai's 4 seasons in terms of overall shooting efficiency while Shai's first 3 seasons blows away Jalen's
Can you elaborate? What does that comment have to do with what I said? Tate's form on his 3 ball looked better IN THE CLIP. No???
It's not defensive, it's offensive. It's called debate and it really feels like you're being a bit soft about being challenged. You're free to reply back. Everyone on this board will debate you if you say some intensely negative stuff about their favorite players. When you say **** like he's not a hard worker, you're making **** up. I can list you his last 4 head coaches, multiple development coaches and both PG's last season calling him resilient, hard worker, patient. They didn't say he never ****ed up, but they did say he is those things. If people just give these compliments out of courtesy, how come he gets this compliment more than any core player on the roster? You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to brush this under the rug. Do you really think you're going to gaslight everyone into your make-believe view that he's not? Then you want to paint it as people being defensive? That I pick my evidence-based view over your baseless one is defensiveness? It's too much for you that I believe IME UDOKA over you? I can't help you with your issues about Jalen knocking women up. It's very very common in the NBA, I don't like it myself but it's not really any of my business unless impregnating women reduces his TS%. No correlation whatsoever. Many of the top 10 players of all time knocked up a lot of women and it's irrelevant. You're projecting your personal non-basketball values on someone else. Your position is basically you don't like his stats so you should jump to the conclusion that - regardless of evidence to the contrary - he must not be working hard. Sorry you have to think harder than that.
Respect you being open minded, hope JG4 improve and prosper.....I expect he will. He is a year behind my estimates on draft day
