Potential extensions for Alperen Sengun and Jalen Green

All up to Jalen to make that decision difficult. This season will be crucial for him because as it currently stands he looks like he is the odd man out.

 

Pretty sure Jalen and his agents already know that. I'll give Jalen credit if he has the balls to try and prove himself in an incredibly stacked roster against players who are much more efficient than he is.

 

Name the players who would be more efficient than him in his role? And yes he has a role asked by the coaches.

Alpi... Sure.

Anyone else? Amen gets pulled from his role he doesn't have that treasure chest of offensive put back gimmies to inflate his scoring efficiency because he'll be out in the perimeter instead of at the dunker spot or rolling to the rim.

Cam no longer can just rely on attacking closeouts. He has to then create against a set defense squared in on him.


Jabari... Probably the worst of the core at putting the ball on the floor.


So who are you referring to? Or are you of those who thinks Grayson Allen is a better scorer than Devin Booker on his team because his scoring efficiency is higher by quite a bit also?

The replacement for Jalen Green is not on his roster. He might not make it as he guy that we need at his role(primary self creating guard) but there is no replacement for him on this roster. If he is gone, whoever we trade him for will be that guy and we'd have to steal h picks obviously to do that.

 

They will be requesting a trade, probably already are....

DD

 

What is Jalen's role on the team? Since you're the Jalen expert.

Go ahead and list the most run plays for Jalen, where the team scored the most PPP when run through Jalen, when Jalen scores the most PPP, etc. Be specific.

 

Color indicates frequency, number indicates league percentile rank in ppp.

Green is one of the highest volume young guards in pnr ball handling and is already above league average efficiency at it. If you look at guards of his archetype like Booker and Ant at the same age, they worse less effective in that type of play.


Sheppard is a wildcard due to not playing a NBA game so we have no idea but outside of him, I'm certain there is no young guy on this team where you can have heavy usage being the primary pnr ball handler against the POA defense and do it as efficiently.

And that's his entire year that has all those horrible stretches. He steadily improved on that as the season went along. Next season I can see him being one of the top 80 percentile players in that play type.

Alao those handoff volume and efficiency numbers for Green node well for a two man game with Sengun.

 

So you think Jalen's role is just FVV's role? Jalen's supposed strength is his ability to create separation and shot creation. How did he do when he didn't dump the ball off to Sengun? And how many turnovers did he average during those sets vs someone like FVV? And I get that FVV is a vet and a more experienced player so I'm not equating the two necessarily. If Amen packs a floater or a mid range two, he's already doing this role better than Jalen. They're also prepping Cam to do this as well if SL and his RGV stint is any indication.

Can you post Jalen's spray chart for the season so we can see all of his percentages from all over the court?

 

Trade chip.

The Rockets have already decided on Green and Alpi.....Alpi is getting an extension the minute Jalen is traded.....if it is in the offseason.

DD

 

Buddy, the guards in this league with the most separation ability like Fox, Ja, Maxey are heavy pnr guys. That's their bread and butter.


Cam Whitmore isn't being groomed to be a heavy pnr primary ball handler.

The summer league didn't show any indication of that. You want a dude who averages more turnovers than assists to be a high usage pnr ball handler? That type of possession is the most turnover prone possession in the league because the ball handler has to maintain a live dribble snaking through multiple defenders squared in on the ball handler.

So the limitations for Cam and Amen in doing that is quite literally the inability to maintain a live dribble in half court sets where multiple defenders are trying to swipe at the ball. They stop their dribble too easily. You can't have people who are high volume pnr ball handlers that stop their dribble as easily as then at the moment.

Anyways i don't feel like engaging right now with someone who doesn't put in anywhere close to the amount of effort to prove their premises that they demand of others like me.


For a player like Cam, I think he'll excell in half court offenses when he develops a triple threat iso bag to his offense similar to guys like Carmelo Anthony or Jaylen Brown. That's what he will excel at.

 

Can you explain why this request of yours tells you more about concepts like what role a player has and what roles they excel in? What does a shot chart showing which zones they are efficient at or not tell you about "roles"? Possession type does. So it seems like you are just swinging at air.

 

So I guess by his philosophy you should just start 5 C’s cause they’re going to be your most efficient players. The shot chart will confirm it. The FG% will confirm it. The roles, spacing, pace, diversity of attack doesn’t matter so no issue there.

Why start anyone else @MystikArkitect ? We can go Sengun, Adams, Landale, Jabari and Uncle Jeff. Our efficiency would be amazing right?

 

Because as a heavy PnR ball handler, you need the ability to score from a myriad of spots on the court. Otherwise they will load up on the pass to Alpy (or Jock or whoever) because that's a higher probability of scoring than just letting Jalen take his defender 1v1. The reason Reed is so tantalizing is that he can do both. That's why everyone reacted to his Summer League the way they did. This means that if you try and take away the pass, he'll just score or kick it out. Another area that Jalen struggles is micro decisions. Can he make the kickout pass if it's there?

You're asking a low IQ player to make high IQ decisions. Do you want me to post his spray chart and success rate for you since you don't seem to want to? At this point I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue anymore. It seems like you think Jalen is the best option we have as a PnR ball handler when data shows that due to his inability to consistently put the ball in the basket...he isn't. He also isn't like Deearon Fox or Amen Thompson in being able to finish at the rim thru traffic.

 

Buddy whatever you think of his IQ, his ability to make shots etc, is irrelevant to his actual ppp efficiency which is above league average efficiency and for a young guard doing it at high volume that's promising. Guys like Ant and Booker had much lower point per possession efficiency.on pnr primary ball handler plays and did it at lowest volume also. Jalen is doing it a lot and doing it efficiently.

That's the point of the chart it shows frequency and competence.

You created a narrative to ignore the actual data that shows that Green is one of the better players at his age at being a high volume pnr player.

 

Can you remind us the meaning of colors and numbers?

 

The colors are different shades of Jalen Green.

 

Color is frequency. Darker green means they do that possession a lot.

Number is league percentile efficiency in terms of points per possession.

You probably are confused about the Alpi post up efficiency showing he's below league average percentile. That has pretty much everything to do with the fact that almost every modern offense will only call a post up play when there is a "mouse in the house" situation where there is some small player switched on to a much stronger player. Only a few teams call a dual post ups like Denver or the Rockets. If it was a stat that just showed efficiency of post up possessions only against center and forwards, Sengun would be much higher.

 

Actually I was confused about league leaders percentiles. Are they league leaders in using that kind of play?

 

this is one of the best summaries circulating around. Which site provides this? For starters, another table with positional rank among starters would be good instead of league percentile.

 

There it is. Please stop responding to me and if you could keep your Jalen propaganda in the Jalen Green thread it'd be awesome. You're making the other player threads hella annoying.