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D&D Coronavirus thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Feb 23, 2020.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  2. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    A long form video wrt Long Covid ... Not for the squeamish or science deniers ...



    Stand out point is that we will not fully know the impact of Long Covid until a decade after onset. Can't wait for 2030.
     
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    How the NYT undermined mask evidence
    Leaked emails reveal how scientists were smeared

    https://unherd.com/2024/08/how-the-nyt-undermined-mask-evidence/

    excerpt:

    Amid the storm of US election headlines in recent weeks, a snippet of news began bubbling up on social media that, only a few years ago, would have whipped up a frenzied media hurricane. President Biden had tested positive for Covid and videos posted on X showed him boarding and exiting Airforce One, but without a mask.

    “Listen to the scientists, support masks,” Biden said at a campaign rally, four years ago, berating Trump for not wearing a mask after he had caught Covid. “Support a mask mandate nationwide,” Biden thundered to cheers and adulation. His campaign message captured a “follow the science” sentiment among Left-leaning American voters who derided anyone questioning mask effectiveness with the label “anti-mask”. This, despite a smattering of articles in Scientific American, Wired, New York Magazine and The Atlantic reporting that scientific studies found masks didn’t seem to stop viruses.

    The debate over mask effectiveness took an odd turn last year when ardent mask advocate, Zeynep Tufekci, wrote a New York Times essay claiming “the science is clear that masks work”. Tufekci’s piece denigrated and belittled a scientific review by the prestigious medical nonprofit, Cochrane, for concluding that the evidence is “uncertain”.

    Shortly after Tufekci published her essay, Cochrane’s editor-in-chief, Karla Soares-Weiser, dashed out a statement, to assure mask advocates that Cochrane would update the review’s language. Cochrane reviews are widely considered as the “gold standard” for high‐quality information to inform medicine, and their process is laborious, with multiple rounds of internal checks and expert peer review. Having Cochrane’s head make a personal pronouncement about a published review is unprecedented — akin to having the executive editor of The New York Times write an essay expressing personal opinions about one of the paper’s own deep-dive investigations.

    The incident also marked an odd point in the timeline of mask use. Before the pandemic, few, if any, prominent organisations promoted masks to stop influenza or other respiratory viruses. As the WHO concluded in their 2019 pandemic preparedness plan: “There have been a number of high-quality randomised controlled trials (RCTs) demonstrating that personal protective measures such as hand hygiene and face masks have, at best, a small effect on influenza transmission.” So, it was not surprising that both Tufekci’s claims “masks work” and Karla Soares-Weiser’s allegations that something was wrong with the Cochrane mask review were later found themselves to have no real evidence.

    Earlier this year, Soares-Weiser issued another statement, this time explaining the mask review was fine and no changes would be made. Despite the 180, damage to Cochrane’s mask review had already been done. Google sends you straight to Tufekci’s New York Times essay alleging problems in the Cochrane review.

    But why did Soares-Weiser change her mind?

    I have discovered, through hundreds of emails provided to me by freedom of information requests and a Cochrane whistleblower, that Tufekci bumped Soares-Weiser into making the statement against Cochrane’s own mask review — a move that landed like a grenade inside the organisation.

    ***
    Brown made his views on the science clear last September when he emailed the organiser of a talk he was giving that masks “do not make a major impact at the community level when promoted as a public health intervention”. He also told me that a recent scientific review in the Annals of Internal Medicine complemented the findings of Cochrane. “In the end, the conclusions were the same.”

    But while Cochrane has ceased attacking its own mask review, The New York Times continues to promote the “masks work” narrative — despite evidence to the contrary. Last May, the paper ran an essay by Tulane University’s John M. Barry. In his piece, Barry wrote: “Masks present a much simpler question. They work. We’ve known they work since 1917, when they helped protect soldiers from a measles epidemic.”

    And yet, we know this is not true. Even Barry does. As he wrote his bestselling tome, The Great Influenza: “The masks worn by millions were useless as designed and could not prevent influenza. Only preventing exposure to the virus could.”

    But as has become clear, and as Brown confirmed in our conversation, masks are no longer about science: “Instead of just talking about the science, it became a political thing. And people fell on one side or the other,” he said. “And they said some things, and then they have to back up what they’ve said previously. And they’re just digging a hole deeper and deeper.”

    What The New York Times did was to embrace a scientific opinion — masks work! — and then defend that notion like a divine ruling — ignoring contrary evidence and attacking researchers such as Tom Jefferson who have spent decades toiling away on a once-obscure topic. “This is what the future holds,” Jefferson told me. “It’s an upside-down world. It’s the death of science.”
    more at the link
     
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  4. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Professor, re-read the methods in this systematic review and then re-evaluate their conclusions.
    I've dissected this already and my opinion remains unchanged. And I am too apathetic to rehash it because the point does not matter right now the pandemic is over and we are all no longer immune naive.

    Masking, when worn correctly, with a surgical grade mask or higher, reduces to completely prevents transmission of SARS-CoV-2. I have yet to see a person get COVID while wearing an N95 while actively treating patients with COVID 19.
     
  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    thanks, and I respect your view. But again, the claim was that it was "incontrovertible" that masks help/prevent transmission of covid/other airborne diseases.

    I was simply questioning the "incontrovertible" part of the claim. I am neither a doctor nor a health care professional, but from what I know about the history and sociology of science, I can tell you that very few claims made in healthcare science are "incontrovertible." That's all.
     
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  6. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    I chose that word carefully.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    you keep using that word copy.gif
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

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  9. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    Os Trigonum likes this.
  10. CrixusTheUndefeatedGaul

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    Why is this stupid thread still here?
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

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  12. AroundTheWorld

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  13. AroundTheWorld

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    Trust the science.

     
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  14. AroundTheWorld

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  15. AroundTheWorld

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  16. AroundTheWorld

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  17. Buck Turgidson

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    Wonderful that Fritz Von Dipf**k is dropping science knowledge, now that covid is running rampant through schools.
     
  18. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    @basso
     
  19. basso

    basso Member
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    it is known.
     
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  20. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Well it’s known by us smart people who aren’t puppets to the media
     
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