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Climate Change

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by ItsMyFault, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    Yes we are at a solar maximum and 2023 was the hottest year on record but the second hottest year on record to that was 2016 which was closer to a solar minimum.
     
  2. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Please don't misunderstand me. We have royally ****ed the carbon content of our atmosphere and it's going to keep warming up until: (1) we remove some of the carbon, (2) the Earth reaches a new, hotter equilibrium point.

    But some of the recent extreme heat events are not purely due to our royal ****ing of the atmosphere. :) The sun is totally over-performing right now. I'm kind of surprised how little we really understand that ball of hot gas.
     
  3. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  4. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Screenshot_20240706-215639.png

    The above graph compares global surface temperature changes (red line) and the Sun's energy received by Earth (yellow line) in watts (units of energy) per square meter since 1880. The lighter/thinner lines show the yearly levels while the heavier/thicker lines show the 11-year average trends. Eleven-year averages are used to reduce the year-to-year natural noise in the data, making the underlying trends more obvious.

    The amount of solar energy Earth receives has followed the Sun’s natural 11-year cycle of small ups and downs with no net increase since the 1950s. Over the same period, global temperature has risen markedly. It is therefore extremely unlikely that the Sun has caused the observed global temperature warming trend over the past half-century.

    No. The Sun can influence Earth’s climate, but it isn’t responsible for the warming trend we’ve seen over recent decades. The Sun is a giver of life; it helps keep the planet warm enough for us to survive. We know subtle changes in Earth’s orbit around the Sun are responsible for the comings and goings of the ice ages. But the warming we’ve seen in recent decades is too rapid to be linked to changes in Earth’s orbit and too large to be caused by solar activity.

    One of the “smoking guns” that tells us the Sun is not causing global warming comes from looking at the amount of solar energy that hits the top of the atmosphere. Since 1978, scientists have been tracking this using sensors on satellites, which tell us that there has been no upward trend in the amount of solar energy reaching our planet.

    A second smoking gun is that if the Sun were responsible for global warming, we would expect to see warming throughout all layers of the atmosphere, from the surface to the upper atmosphere (stratosphere). But what we actually see is warming at the surface and cooling in the stratosphere. This is consistent with the warming being caused by a buildup of heat-trapping gases near Earth's surface, and not by the Sun getting “hotter.”

    https://science.nasa.gov/climate-change/faq/is-the-sun-causing-global-warming/
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    I agree climate is complicated but things like
    Solar cycle maximums and minimums don’t seem to be affecting climate.

    Also to days ago was when the earth is at the furthest point from the sun. That didn’t stop there being some record heat in several places on Earth.
     
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  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    One wonders how life lasted for 3 billion years on earth before fossil fuels.
     
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  7. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Throughout history, innovations like fire, the wheel, domesticated horses, archery, and gunpowder have been crucial in shaping nations and supporting their populations. Fossil fuels, once essential, are now becoming outdated. As we move forward, nations that fail to adopt superior methods and technologies risk falling behind or disappearing altogether. The key to survival and prosperity lies in embracing progress and adapting to changing times. OTOH, staying put in faces of new challenges is a formula for disaster.
     
    #3147 Amiga, Jul 7, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2024
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  8. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    Are you including deaths from related things like storms strengthening due to extremely warm water temperatures and prolonged droughts?
     
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    So people in Texas are dealing with the earliest recorded hurricane to get to CAT 4 strength in the meantime wildfire season is in full force in the west.

    climate doesn’t care whether people deny, spin, or mock protesters.
     
  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    Climate Fueled Extreme Weather
    Part 1: A new series at THB

    https://rogerpielkejr.substack.com/p/climate-fueled-extreme-weather

    excerpt:

    It is now a ubiquitous cultural ritual to blame any and every weather event on climate change. Those hot days? Climate change. That hurricane? Climate change. The flood somewhere that I saw on social media? Climate change.

    With today’s post, the first in a series, I go beyond the cartoonish media caricatures of climate change, which I expect are here to stay, and explore the actual science of extreme events — how they may or may not be changing, and how we think we know what we know, and what we simply cannot know.

    Quite apart from the outsized and oversimplified role of climate-fueled extreme weather in culture and politics, climate is fascinating and important — and worth understanding as more than a meme. This post lays the groundwork for this new THB series, starting with some important definitions and a quantitative thought experiment.
    more at the link
     
  12. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    ... and what did life expectancy look like before the use of fossil fuels? What did quality of life look like?

    Fossil fuels have driven massive advancements in prosperity and quality of life for billions of people. Trying to limit their use is extremely damaging to society -- in particular the lower classes and poor nations, like Africa. Literacy rates, health care access, food access, and job opportunities are all driven by access to low cost energy. While the selfish people in Vail and Aspen might argue that they aren't getting enough powder to enhance their skiing, there are people in Kenya, Somalia, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc who lack access to electricity and are dependent upon fossil fuels to lift them out of poverty.

    Climate change is a way for governments to take control of the energy sector to ultimately raise taxes and grow government influence on society. It's also a way to punish energy-rich regions (Russia, Middle East), to the benefit of energy-poor regions (Europe, LatAm). We are an energy-rich region and have no business creating self-inflicted wounds on our economy with these climate change lies and fantasies.
     
    #3152 El_Conquistador, Jul 8, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2024
  13. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Man you make me want to play civilization 5 again.
     
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  14. tinman

    tinman Member
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    @Os Trigonum

    throwing food on the Mona Lisa isn’t stopping anything breh
     
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  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    This isn't for the character you play but to answer these questions that have been brought up before.
    If you read the tweet it said "they're essential for life as we know it" Since as best we can tell life as existed for 3 billion years on earth while use of fossil fuels only a few centuries clearly they are not.

    For quality of life no one is denying that the use of fossil fuels has been a part of developing technology with benefits. That said so was the use of lead and asbestos but we've not only been doing fine we've improved our technology and standard of living since those have largely been phased out. The thinking that because fossil fuels were used before doesn't mean we can't develop new and better technology to replace them.
    And that has worked great for Nigeria which because of the oil industry has been racked by civil war and rampant corruption. Also I've lived in and have business ties to Indonesia and they've signed onto the Paris accord. Like most countries they could do a better job but as a country that is dealing with climate change disasters like increased tropical storms they are working on it.
    https://www.whitecase.com/insight-a...ngs, this policy,Agreement by enacting Law No.
    We also have technology and the ability to not keep doing things the way we used to. But feel free to tell yourself that this is all a fantasy as you deal with a CAT 1 hurricane in early July.
     
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    a CAT 1 hurricane in early July is not, by itself, evidence of climate change
     
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  17. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    I'm pretty sure he's including respiratory illnesses (most of which occur in the winter months) in those numbers. These aren't weather-related. A warming planet will still experience winters, including extreme cold. Therefore, separating and comparing them as mutually exclusive is incorrect thinking.
     
  18. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    no, not at all

    your rising home insurance rate is a much better proxy
     
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  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    lol. proxies are what convince people we have thousands of years worth of climate data. unfortunate choice of language. ;)
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    To follow on Amiga's post yes that alone is not. That we've seen several years of increasing warmth in both air and sea temperatures that is fuel for hurricanes is.
     
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