astros123 held his bag of $hit in everyone’s face and now ran away

@Bandwagoner ,

There was a time in Americans history where the people most adamant about limiting the powers of the federal government and delineating more power to local state governments were people who were advocating for the continual existence of slavery in their respective state.

So those who were fighting to keep slavery in their states were proto-antifa as they were fighting against the expansion of federal powers?

 

A fascist state would have not allowed any states to ban slavery. They would have mandated slave labor in factories like Nazi Germany did. They would not be for deregulating industries, they would be for directly controlling them and the economy at large.

 

Do you know why a nation would be fascist for not allowing slavery to be banned nationwide?

It doesn't have anything to do with a federal mandate in itself.

Hint: it's an action that helps the perpetuation of traditional social and economic hierarchies where the right people are in their right place(black people as physical laborers, women as child rearers, white men as leaders and owners of property).


The act of a federal mandate in itself has nothing to do with fascism.

 

And you didn't answer MY question. Would a individual fighting for the right of their local state to perpetuate the institution of slavery against the efforts of the bigger federal government be doing an explicit anti-fascist act?

They are fighting against a federal government denying their local government powers. By your criteria the Confederacy was a early proto-anti-fascist movement.

 

Central power and control is a key part of fascism.

That isn't my definition. I said the opposite, if the USA was fascist, the North would have been required to legalize slavery in the state run businesses. Me disputing the GOP is fascist doesn't open up an insane hypothetical about the confederacy. Why are you not just arguing the current real world examples? I'm not defending the Confederacy, I am questioning your application of Fascism to the GOP.

A fascist government would be instituting sterilization of the races perceived to be lesser by their eugenicists. they would not be allowing states to outlaw that demographics access to abortions.

 

Then what you are saying is effectively meaningless. What is the differentiating factor between a federal mandate that bans slavery and a federal mandate that doesn't allow the banning of slavery with your criteria of fascism?

The fascist part has nothing to do with it being a federal mandate. The fascist part has to do with the slavery part.

With your logic I'm sure the Jews in Germany would love a fascist federal government that made stripping away property from Jews a capital offense during 1930s Germany nationwide.


The acts, the ideology, the polices a group pushes seems irrelevant to what fascism is to you.

Hence why for you "fascism" is just a generic term for "authoritarianism". It's just an interchangeable term.





Me disputing the GOP is fascist doesn't open up an insane hypothetical about the confederacy. Why are you not just arguing the current real world examples?

A fascist government would be instituting sterilization of the races perceived to be lesser by their eugenicists. they would not be allowing states to outlaw that demographic to have abortions.[/QUOTE]

 

A fascist party who sees that the popularity of eugenics and sterilization being highly regionally dependent where being open about wanting it can harm national office viability would advocate for those policies at the state level until they see it become a mass adopted idea and wax lyrical about how they are allowing local states to force sterilization of certain ethnic groups as a freedom




Again, the federal vs state part is irrelevant. The eugenics part is what makes it fascist.

 

can you cite any examples of fascism that fit this decentralized model?

 

Any aspect of fascism will first be a entity that isn't nationally viable and will fight at the local level for example in Germany, Bavaria was a hot bed for early fascism.

Fascism also has this aspect where it's followers before they have power wax lyrical about freedoms like speech:

Where they cry victim all the time.


Remember Nazism at its core is a victimhood ideology where the belief is that Aryans were victims of bankers, communists, migrants etc.


Remember this graph and remember how a core aspect of current gop politics is rhetoric around how the white male is a victim of discrimination in modern America.


When the most wealthy and privileged ethnic group of a nation believes they are victims, fascism is knocking.

 

A federal government that bans eugenics and forced sterilization based in race/ethnicity at all levels of government is more fascist like than a federal government that allows local states to decide?

 

So you can cite zero examples is that correct?

 

Your argument is bad faith.

Plenty of examples of fascist movements that didn't successfully grab national power. Doesn't make those entities not fascist.


So ya the most famous fascist regimes will be the fascist regimes where the fascism won out.... No ****.


Do you not understand this basic idea?

Are you of the notion that a failed fascist is not a fascist?

I answered your question. It's not the answer you like so you have to deal with it.

Now answer mine. Is a federal government that bans at all levels of government beneath them forced sterilization based on ethnicity more or less fascist than a federal government that allows local governments to make that decision of forcing sterilization on certain minority groups? Which federal government in this binary choice would be "more fascist"?

 

The problem for you is Trump WON the election and then deferred power to a more decentralized model and deregulated segments of the economy. It isn't like he TRIED to centralize power, he did the opposite. So you entire post is irrelevant to your argument. I'm not buying it.

 

Buddy when a large part of Trump's agenda is replacing the career data scientist working at the FDA with a political appointee, he is doing exactly that or attempting to. He's trying to make every arm of the executive branch even the apolitical positions political. The only work the man cares to do as a president besides campaigning is making sure the entire federal government is staffed with yes people.

And then there is the fact that Donald Trump convinced 2/5ths of the voting population that our vote counts are fake news.

And then there is the fact the dude proudly in his rallies waxes lyrical about banning citizens based on political ideology.


I sincerely thought you were a more moderate conservative. This actually disappoints me that you are using these gutter level talking points.

 

Good grief, these numbers are LOW. Accuracy?

 

I'm extremely conservative and was disappointed DeSantis didn't secure the nomination because Trump sucks. Partly for some of the crap you mentioned in this post. You are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole to apply a pejorative term to your current political boogeyman. It has massive holes and I don't think it fits. We disagree, that's fine we can still be friends.

 

nah dude with Donald Trump, there is no" the left calls everyone they disagree with fascist" talking point here.

Donald Trump even in the eyes of many miliqoust independents is a fascist and for good reason.

 

Also I feel as if Ron Desantis embraces your concept of fascism(centralizing power) even more when he was governor with his many culture war agendas targeting private entities for speech that was critical of the governor and his policies.

Desantis embraces fascism also.