Amen Thompson is the Rockets' REAL franchise player

I completely disagree. In his last 20 games, he averaged something like 14/9/3 on around .62 TS%. At 20 years old, while acting as a fantastic defensive presence. Imagine if he had a passable jump shot -- hell, not even a passable one. He's a 30%+ 3 point jump from making a massive jump. He has the ceiling among our prospects IMO.

 

Great minds think alike. I think Amen absolutely loves basketball and is extremely coachable. I think he will surprise a lot of people with at least a passable corner 3 this year. That corner 3 is very important for the role he’ll be playing this year. I also wouldn’t be surprised if he developed a decent floater or mid-range shot this year which will be helpful when he is running at point in the half-court in relief a FVV, but that might be asking a bit too much in one off-season.

 

He's the best finisher at the rim we have besides Sengun. He's the best playmaker we have in transition. Second best outright. He's the best rebounder on the team. He's the most athletic player on the team. He's tied for the smartest player on the team. He has the best hands on the team along with Tari and is also the best blocker on the team.

He's also the only rookie we've had that didn't look like a headless chicken. Jumbo Ja Morant with better defense is absolutely on the table here.

 

I mean that ts% is slightly disappointing given that his last twenty games on offense he played a Clint Capella/Draymond hybrid as a rim roller who played the dunker spot.

What would his ts% be if he played as a guard and not a lob threat?

 

I would say the best finisher we have besides Sengun is Jalen.

Jalen and Amen have the same fg% inside the paint at 71% but one of those guys does it as a guard off the dribble with the point of attack defense squared in on him and the other does it as a roll man, dunker spot man.

Morant came into the league with above average handles for a point guard.

Amen came in with average handles of a wing.

This is a stupid comparison.

 

His ceiling will certainly be capped at a lower than ideal place if he never develops a jumper, but he can still be an extremely valuable player without one. It would make lineup construction a little trickier (him and Sengun would be a no go unless Alpi develops a 3 ball) He has the tools to be one of the 5 best players in basketball if he does develop one.

I rememeber the Brooks v Lowry debate once upon a time. A lot of people preferred Brooks because he had the jumper, but the reality was Brooks had a lot of shortcomings, Lowry only had one big one between him and greatness. Some of the other prospects have better jumpers, but they have a lot of other holes they need to shore up or are physically incapable of ever fixing. Thompson has no physical limitations, and has already displayed a great feel for knowing "how" to play basketball unlike some of our other gifted athletes.

 

Where are you getting your stats? Jalen shot 58.7% from less than 5 feet last season and under 25% from 5 - 9. Amen shot 65.7% from less than 5 feet and 43% from 5 - 9.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630224/shooting (Jalen)

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1641708/shooting (Amen)

 

The problem with Amen's jump shot expresses a deep concern.


His jump shot looks like someone who never learned the purpose for why people jump on a jump shot. The timing of his movement when going up for a shot is just disconnected.

If you were ever trained to warm up for shooting you were taught to start a drill at the rim with no guide arm and warm up the motion of your one handed shot without jumping. This gets down the muscle memory for how to properly launch the ball using your legs properly. When you get that feel down then you step out and start doing actual jumpers. If you train like they you would develop the disconnected form he has where it looks like he just jump for the sake of jumping on his shot.

 

Basketballball reference 0-3 ft.

Also look at the massive gap in unassisted fgs% for those attempts also.

Give the fact that amen is far more active in transition and offensive boards where those buckets that result from they are counted as unassisted, the two is significantly larger as the majority of Amen's unassisted makes at the rim come from offensive put backs or open transition which aren't exactly the type of plays that express finishing talent like driving to the rim in a half court set against the point of attack defense.

An example is Amen has 37 "tip attempts" and Green has 4. And that's just "tips" as many offensive rebound put backs aren't even tips.

I mean Jalen Green isn't asked to be a offensive rebounder so you can't blame him for a low "tip" attempt number.

But that one difference in attempts at tips alone shows that Amen should be leagues ahead of Green in finishing percentages but isn't. That's because Amen isn't as talented of a finisher.

 

"At the rim" is not the same as "inside the paint." At the rim, Jalen shot worse than Amen last season (71% v. 69%). And while that percentage is close, Amen was way better from 3 - 10 feet (.464 Amen v. .344 Jalen). Saying they both shot ".71 inside the paint" is wrong on every level.

 

this is how most of us feel. It is the *fan only guys that get upset when Amen is floated as a possible superstar if he develops a shot.By the way I think Jalen could become a superstar if he could develop a shot. Sengun could be an offensive superstar if he develops a 3 pter. Why do Jalen only fans get so upset when somebody suggests somebody else on the roster might end up being better?

 

I'm sorry at the rim it was 69% vs 71%. I'm so sorry.

Dude. You are comparing the scoring efficiency at the rim of a dude with a closer scoring profile to Clint Capella to a guy with a closer scoring profile to Ja Morant.


Is Clint Capella a better finisher at the rim than Ja Morant because of better "finishing numbers"?


Should someone who has like 20x more put backs at the rim from offensive rebounding have a larger than 2% gap than 2% at finishing at the rim?

 

You said Amen and Jalen both shot .71 "inside the paint." Again, "inside the paint" is not the same as "at the rim," and when looking at a player's "finishing" you have to look at their shots at AND near the rim. Amen was massively better than Jalen near the rim last season.

And sorry, I watched the games last season. The idea that Amen acted as some Capela type who just sits in the dunker's spot is nonsense. Look at these highlights from April -- they are plenty of examples of him slashing from the perimeter, finishing over multiple defenders, moving well in transition, etc. Also, I'm not gonna ding Amen because he's a much, much better rebounder than Jalen. That's ridiculous.

 

I think you are unhinged if you think the difference in offensive put backs is a product of pure talent.

Obviously Amen is a naturally better offensive rebounder and put back artist. He's bigger with similar athletic gifts as Green. He should be. But the overwhelming gap in stats like "tip ins" between Jalen and Amen is almost purely due to offensive roles and where they are positioned in a half court set.

Amen played the role of the short roller and dunker spot.
Look at 90% of half court sets where both Jalen and Amen are on the court together and see where they are. Amen is almost always utilized as the roller or is hovering around the baseline waiting for his defender to be drawn to the lead ball handler which is usually Green or FVV. When you are in that spot you are trying to be in position for offensive boards a lot more than the dude who is the primary pnr ball handler.

That's where the vast majority of his half court attempts at the rim come from.


Do you want to play the highlight reel game with Jalen?

Amen even with his highlights shows a man with powerful force and athleticism at the rim but when he has to resort to flick of the wrist soft touch type finishes he is very lacking compared to Jalen.

 

Amen benefited immensely under ime, I can't imagine how he would have looked under the silas/kpj system.

Actually I think amen would have look nice regardless, basing off how his brother is on a sht team and still shines.

 

I think, in general, the difference in rebounding is a combination of size, position, AND desire. Amen just seems like the more motivated defender and rebounder by a pretty large degree. I'm not giving Jalen credit for finally being somewhat passable on defense last season when a rookie is way, way ahead of him in that department, particularly when it seems the gap may be due, in large part, to effort.

Who cares if Amen has to resort to "wrist flicks" when finishing? He's better at finishing near the basket than Jalen AS A ROOKIE. I'm surprised this fact is lost on you. Should I look back and Jalen's rookie season, when he shot a disgusting .25 from near the rim?

Yes, Amen is bigger and stronger than Jalen. That's the whole point. Even if Amen doesn't become a decent 3 point shooter, he can still be an incredible player in this league due to his combination of size, strength, and defensive prowess. If Amen develops a 3 ball, the sky's the limit. Due to Jalen's size, he HAS to significantly improve his efficiency, and I just haven't seen it yet. Even in his incredible March run, Jalen's TS% was only .55.

 

Amen will be starter.His defense is all nba level aka Kawhi.

 

@fchowd0311 wins. Jalen does have the most flexible softest wrists on the team…

 

You can't have your cake and eat it also.

This is like saying that Clint Capella is a better finisher at the rim than James Harden because he's a naturally better offensive rebounder.


You can't have your cake and eat it also. Just imagine how a half court offense operates?

You want Amen to eventually be the lead ball handler doing things like navigating pnr possessions off the dribble. Guess what... He won't be in those same positions to do tip ins any more inflating his finishing numbers.

Do you want Amen's finishing numbers at the rim to be really high like they are now but he's playing a more off ball rim roller/dunker spot role? Or do you want his finishing numbers to drop off considerably if he transforms to lead guard?

You can't have both. Amen is talented but he can't multiply himself to be doing two roles at once.


So yes he is more gifted as a rebounder than Green. All that means is if Green got transferred to a dunker spot role on the team he would be worse at getting offensive put backs than Amen. That's what it means.

But Amen having a lot more offensive put backs than Jalen right now means they play different roles on the court, not because one is significantly better at put backs. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Yes Amen is more gifted at put backs, but that isn't the reason why he has a lot more than Green. It's because the position he plays on the court.

 

Don't you have to low T treatment appointment to go to?