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The question of trump immunity

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Dec 24, 2023.

  1. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    No, actually they are putting a stop to the republic-threatening lawfare that the Biden regime broke 250 years of precedent to inflict upon their political opponents. Pretty simple, really.
     
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  2. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    So keep my passport on deck? You have never been one to sound alarm bells like this in the past.
     
  3. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Contributing Member

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    And to pass this off on the last day is not a coincidence. I was surprised by the ruling, and this is going to set us up for a Dictator. I was naive and thought they would do what was right, bit was I a sucker...................this is a sad day for Americans
     
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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I don't know what the future holds, and I don't know if a dictator or quasi dictator will emerge where one party essentially controls the government for a decade or more. What I can say is that the conditions for a dictator to rule are better than they have been in a very long time. The US population has shown that they will tolerate abhorrent and criminal behavior from the highest elected office - and this is something new, in the past no one politically connected would believe this. Also - now there are less protections and checks and balances to limit power grabs by the executive branch, as reflected by SCOTUS rulings and public tolerance.

    Since 9-11 we have seen the expansion of executive authority, and now it has actually carried over into the tolerance for threats, criminal behavior and even immunity for it.
     
  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    nixon wouldn't have needed the pardon... he had immunity, and virtually unlimited immunity at that, according to this maga supreme court.
     
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Twelve years earlier, sam alito was spinning the same lie... who would have known?

     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Biden should use his new powers immediately and put out an executive order that anyone convicted of a felony can not run for public office.

    Case closed.

    DD
     
  8. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Court majority ruled prosecutors can't use official acts to prove unofficial acts. Example: A president accepting a bribe is unofficial (and criminal), but appointing someone or signing a law (to honor that bribe) is official. Prosecutors can't introduce these official acts, effectively killing bribery cases. Justice Barrett dissented on this part of the ruling.

    Future impact: Bribe, bribe, bribe, bribe, bribe, bribe, bribe, biribe

    Edit: added another example from the dissent (hitman)

    23-939 Trump v. United States (07/01/2024) (supremecourt.gov)(PDF)
    Consider a bribery prosecution—a charge not at issue here but one that provides a useful example. The federal bribery statute forbids any public official to seek or accept a thing of value “for or because of any official act.” 18 U. S. C. §201(c). The Constitution, of course, does not authorize a President to seek or accept bribes, so the Government may prosecute him if he does so. Yet excluding from trial any mention of the official act connected to the bribe would hamstring the prosecution. To make sense of charges alleging a quid pro quo, the jury must be allowed to hear about both the quid and the quo, even if the quo, standing alone, could not be a basis for the President’s criminal liability.



    If the former President cannot be held criminally liable for his official acts, those acts should still be admissible to prove knowledge or intent in criminal prosecutions of unofficial acts. For instance, the majority struggles with classifying whether a President’s speech is in his capacity as President (official act) or as a candidate (unofficial act). Imagine a President states in an official speech that he intends to stop a political rival from passing legislation that he opposes, no matter what it takes to do so (official act). He then hires a private hitman to murder that political rival (unofficial act). Under the majority’s rule, the murder indictment could include no allegation of the President’s public admission of premeditated intent to support the mens rea of murder. That is a strange result, to say the least.
     
    #448 Amiga, Jul 1, 2024 at 3:04 PM
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2024 at 3:20 PM
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  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Our entire government is bribe bribe bribe, but the GOP Is far and away the most corrupt and for sale....Lincoln would be ashamed.

    DD
     
  10. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    No, it was not. That was a crime that would be prosecuted (ongoing today against a sitting Democratic Senator).

    POTUS is effectively immune from prosecution for bribery going forward.
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Everyone is immune from it ...it seems the GOP has Russia paying members off through the NRA...

    DD
     
  12. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    This week's SCOTUS rulings helped preserve our republic by putting a stop to two Democrat fantasies:

    1) Unlimited lawfare against political opponents, using deep blue jury pools in DC

    2) A powerful and permanent liberal 4th branch of government that will never get voted out of power because of its location in Washington DC -- The Administrative State.

    Both rulings help restore power to the people -- something Democrats absolutely detest.
     
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  13. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    It seems isn't good enough. You have to have evidences. Anyhow, it's against the law. But the POTUS is now above that law.
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Woo, man, what a weird way to show it….by giving immunity to the current President. “We’re freaked out by the Biden regime…let’s give him immunity!!” Brilliant legal reasoning.
     
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Might be a bad idea if Hunter's got serious dirt on his shoes.
    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...aw-unsettled-issues-and-a-downside-for-trump/

    The broader the pardon, the narrower the Fifth Amendment protection.

    In the 1915 case of Burdick v. U.S., George Burdick refused a pre-emptive pardon issued by Woodrow Wilson because accepting it would have meant that he could not claim his Fifth Amendment privilege when called to give testimony relating to the pardoned crime before a grand jury. Herein lies the downside for President Trump in any pardons he might grant. Should Congress or the Justice Department seek to determine whether the president or any of his associates acted criminally before or during Trump’s term as president, pardoned individuals would be limited in their ability to dodge questions by claiming their Fifth Amendment privilege. The broader the pardon, the narrower the Fifth Amendment protection. Roger Stone, for example, after being pardoned for the crime of impeding a congressional investigation could not invoke the Fifth Amendment to avoid answering narrowly focused questions regarding this illegal activity. His privilege would, however, remain with respect to other possible crimes, and he might even be able avoid answering questions about the lies he told Congress if his answers might help prosecutors prove him guilty of different crimes. By contrast, the terms of Michael Flynn’s pardon render him unable to claim the Fifth Amendment in any proceedings exploring Russia’s involvement in the 2016 election. If Trump issued similarly broad or broader pardons to members of his family or closest allies, they too could be required to tell more of what they did and know.

    Although truthful testimony might shame a witness or open Trump or others up to suits for civil damages, these considerations cannot support Fifth Amendment claims. Also, with criminal prosecutions off the table, Congress or the Justice Department, perhaps acting through special counsel, might be more rather than less willing to explore the possible crimes and bad acts of Trump and his associates. Even if illegal behavior were uncovered, the DOJ would not be in a situation where it felt it had to bring charges that might unacceptably exacerbate political divisions or result in trials where juries did not convict. To a degree determined by the scope of Trump’s pardons, recipients could be required to flesh out details about crimes for which they had been pardoned, perhaps implicating others whose involvement had gone undetected. If they then lied to avoid shaming themselves or to protect others, they could be tried for that crime.​
     
  16. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    lol, that guy is so ready for his King
     
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  17. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    They better “kill all the lawyers” (credit Shakespeare) then. Except for those that have been appointed by the King, I guess.
     
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  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I don’t think Trump is competent enough nor interested enough to be a true dictator. I think you are right and that was is being setup is the “after Trump.”

    a big thing we are spiraling towards is the collapse of the society we’ve known for the last 100 years. Jobs are going to be destroyed at an insane rate and the Uber wealthy oligarchs want to make sure that the American president can function essentially the way the Russian does. They don’t want people to be able to do anything to break up the power dynamics that are going to emerge.
     
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  20. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    Democrats are funny, should have never perused their political opponent and this would have never happened. They got all the way to about a 10 on fing around , now they are finding out.... Wipe your liberal tears and move on, life is good.....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

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