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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. dmoneybangbang

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    Sucks that countries prefer the Western led alliance instead of the Russian one. It’s almost like they remember how Russia/USSR brutally took their lands and subjugated their people.
     
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  2. dmoneybangbang

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    Another reason why conservatives want to control education…. Russia/USSR was actually the good guys!

    @Commodore is just showing how little history she knows.
     
  3. dmoneybangbang

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    I think some people just understand human nature instead of having convenient views of human life.
     
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  4. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    @AroundTheWorld this is your guy huh. The guy who would be tough on national security you dipshits claim
     
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  5. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Just insults from the crew that supports genocide if Israel insists and supports the losing proxy war in Ukraine, since it leads to just Ukrainian deaths. So sad.
     
  6. dmoneybangbang

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    So sad, being so naive on the state of the world....

    Ukrainian children abducted by Russia left with psychological scars, campaigners say

     
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  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I support dictatorcide....

    DD
     
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I'd take anything posted for Chinese Tiktok with a grain of rice, but he looks like a legit mercenary and tells a captivating story.
     
  9. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Yes the war in Ukraine is a proxy war which the US should force ukraine to capitulate all of its land to russia but hamas has the right to attack Israel according to you. Ukraine must give up its territory to russia while hamas has right to attack Israel according to braindead lefties.

    Lefties @glynch are no different than MAGA @Commodore . They are both braindead stupid
     
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  10. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    @AroundTheWorld supports these brave soliders being depleted of ammo to kill Russians. Sick stuff
     
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  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Another embarrassing post by MAGAlynch:

    1) attempt to conflate/interpose "israel genocide" which has nothing to do with this and is attributed to "the crew" rather than any individual, lest he actually have to show proof

    2) "the losing proxy war in Ukraine" - oh yes, you mean the 3 day "Special Military Operation that is now on day 800+ in which Russia was basically supposed to conquer all of ukraine and install a pro- Russian regime

    ...has now lost more men than in 10 years in Afghanistan and gained - a small swath of SE Ukraine, to protect Crimea which is slowly being strangled (because the genius Putin destroyed it's water supply) and can no longer host Russian Ships or planes.

    The only proxy here losing is your MAGA ass @glynch - Ukraine is doing ok, all things considered, and is on the side of right, along with all democracies and the socialists you used to celebrate

    Meanwhile your ass is on the right with Trump , Putin and all thr very worst elements of the modern crypto fascist movement including your boy Netanyshu - you and the rest of the autocrats can go jump the fk off the Kerch Bridge
     
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  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    He's a leftist in the Glenn Greenwald / Matt Taibbi sense - basically MAGa slop peddler
     
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  13. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    @SamFisher another MAGA talking point is debunked
     
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  14. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Im not sure that’s accurate. As someone who does consume some progressive media I know that about 10 or so years ago many of the left progressive big thinkers in media actually had a home at RT. Noam Chomsky is a big part of the think tank there and folks like Amy Goodman, Thom Hartman, and others moved onto American streaming/Youtube/etc. platforms when Putin took over RT for good and ensured they had no left leaning ideology allowed on that network.

    Folks like Goodman and Hartman have been pretty solid in terms of using objective reason in their opinions while some like Chomsky are still holding onto that Leninist/Soviet premise and their thinking still makes its way into the progressive/Bernie caucus even though Bernie is a practical Democrat himself even though these folks adore him.

    It’s pretty crazy that the guy who has Bernie as his avatar actually doesn’t listen to what Bernie says about what is happening now regarding Putin and Ukraine. It’s almost like how Trumps people didn’t listen to Trump on vaccines… but definitely less crazy. It’s just an idealogical history there that goes back years to the RT days where there’s a Leninist foundation that still presents a worldview of what the Soviet Union was back then that is nothing like it is today and probably never will be any different until Putin dies.

    So long story short I do think folks like Glynch can be reasoned with and will eventually come around on things. It’s just the war in Ukraine is a pretty tough one for some reason. There just isn’t such a hard time in their minds thinking about reforming the Soviet Union and it’s not as much of a big deal to see Ukraine, Lithuania, etc. just folding back into the Union because they think it’s not as bad as it really is.
     
    #16254 dobro1229, Jun 17, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2024
  15. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    It's a tough one bcz lefties are not accustomed to other countries doing the imperialism they hate so much. They're so accustomed to America being the aggressor that they can't phantom the idea that someone else is at fault. Their entire view of foreign policy comes from the prism of the Iraq war which was obviously awful. They compare everything to Iraq cuz that's what mentally broke them.

    Lefties can't phantom the concept that someone else can be an aggressor. Their entire ideology revolves around America being bad
     
  16. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Sam doesn't post to be accurate.

    I think Glynch will always distrust military action with US involvement, and I've yet to see one example where he hasn't. I can't blame him with our track record, and most of our military moves has seen some kind of quid pro quo, except maybe the Clinton era with Haiti (fail), Serbia (spooked out Russia), and UN peacekeepers in Somalia (fail).

    He was right with Iraq and Afghanistan, and I'm sure the worst is yet to come with Ukraine.

    We need more Glynchs in this kind of debate though it's probably an exercise in futility given how extremely bipolar things have become with each side holding onto a With Us or Against Us mentality.

    As for the rest of your analysis, China has also been seeding influence to left-wing socialist groups. Dreams of a Global Marxist Revolution are not dead...

    But that's just war. Every side is now an influencer whoring for views with filters and dubiously procured media. That recent clip of the Ukranian tank gunner glorifies combat like it's a live action Call of Duty.

    Can't label glynch as a useful idiot with a straight face when we're posting that crap to make our armchair selves feel better or more patriotic...
     
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  17. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Not inaccurate.
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I agree that @glynch is pretty consistent on his suspicion of US military involvement and I think that shows in how critical he is of both US military support is with regard to Ukraine and Israel. I also agree that in range of debate there certainly is place for his position.

    What I am very critical of is seemingly willful ignorance of basic facts. Russia invaded Ukraine. That is a fact. Not only did they invade Ukraine of February 2022 they took Crimea in 2014 and have been arming separatists in Ukraine as far back as 2011. Ukraine was not about to invade Russia. Ukraine was not and is not a member of NATO. There was no imminent threat to Russia from Ukraine.

    Yet glynch and several others have claimed that argued that Ukraine was an imminent threat to Russia and that Ukraine is the aggressor.

    I will also say that glynch though isn't alone in substituting opinion for facts and we frequently see that here from many posters on many issues.
     
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  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    With the fog of war, all we have are opinions...esp when we're several thousand miles away from the stakes of the conflict.

    I don't think the Maiden Revolution was a coup. It's been several years that the facts are mostly out there. There's just too many people with divided loyalties for that Big Lie to hold...

    But it's fairly easy to replace facts for opinions. People believed Russia and the Trump campaign were heavily intertwined except the Mueller report didn't give the media the result they built up.

    Hillary campaign largely got away with seeding and leaking allegations that the FBI was actively investigating the Golden Shower papers, which only revved up in earnest because Buzzfeed jumped in the story and hinted they were. Bush assumed there were nukes in Iraq with their infamous Yellow Cake allegations and convinced Americans Saddam and Al Qaeda worked together.

    Even with the span of years, I doubt we'll truly know the details until many of the players and their hardcore supporters are powerless or dead.
     
  20. dmoneybangbang

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    It can be both true that Iraq and Afghanistan was a colossal waste and Ukraine isn’t. When you are always on one side, that’s where the issue is…. Lack of nuance and context
     
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