Then why weren't "all the Jews dead" in the Levant before the British mandate when secular European Jewish people saw a region full of Muslims as a safe haven from crazy Europeans?
Which is why I said I hope you aren’t. But your statements including below make me question that. So the. You don’t consider the people who died on Oct. 7 or the hostages victims also?
You don't consider the rape victims of the Haitian slave revolt as victims? When you ask these type of questions it shows a basic lack of respect of human dignity. Of course the Israeli civilians who die at the hands of Hamas are victims. All civilians that die in conflict are victims.
Yes. So were the civilians killed in the Europa hotel bombing by the IRA. A cause I support. Good. I’m glad you stated that. In your post above though you say “one side is the victim”. You frequently talk about human nature yet you downplay the human nature of the Israelis. As much as it is human nature that Palestinians would be angry and want to strike back at Israel you seem to downplay that Israelis would’ve be very angry and want to punish Palestinians after Oct 7.
It seems like you are upset I said one side in its totality are victims vs an oppressor state. The Nazis were the oppressors, the Romani, Jews, French, Polish etc were the victims. Individual German civilians were victims of Allied military campaigns. Without the oppressor, entities like Hamas or Nakam(Jewish terror group of former Holocaust survivors that almost successfully killed millions of German civilians by almost successfully poisoning their water supply) wouldn't exist. And btw members of Nakam was celebrated in Israel.
Irrelevant, but if you care, ask them, they'll probably tell you what their motivations are -- same as Hamas and any Palestinian supporters they have. This is why I used the word "most" and not "all". However, to act as if religion is not the primary fuel on this fire is naive/ignorant. Again -- listen to the words that come out of the belligerents' mouths. Take people at their word. This game of mind-reading is tiresome nonsense.
Religion is an effect not a cause. Again, Nihilism draws in desires for a ideology that promises something after this existence.
Are you being serious? There were only 9,000 Jews left in Israel/Palestine in 1850 after multiple pogroms and massacres in Safed, Hebron, Jaffa and elsewhere that started in 600AD with Mohammed and continued for centuries through the British Mandate period. These historical facts have been shared and listed numerous times and I'm sure you are well aware. Bolded are the ones that occured after 1800 in the Levant. 622–627: ethnic cleansing of Jews from Mecca and Medina, ▪ 624: after the victory of Badr, beginning of the elimination of the Jews 625: expulsion of the Jewish clan of Al Nadir 626: massacre of the Beni Khazradj Jews and division of families and loot 626? : expedition against the Jews beni Qoraizha, insulted by Mohammed: “O you, monkeys and pigs…” ▪ 626? : massacre of 700 Beni Qoraïzha Jews, bound for three days, then slaughtered above a ditch, with the young boys ▪ 626: murder of the Jew Kab, leader of the Beni Nadhir and satirist poet, and of his wife who had made fun of Mohammed ▪ 626: expedition against the Jews of Kaihbar ▪ 626: murder on the orders of Muhammad of the Jew Sallam abu Rafi ▪ 626: Mohammed had the palm trees of the Jewish oasis Beni Nadhir cut down ▪ 627: elimination of the Jewish Qurayza clan in Medina ▪ 627: massacre of the Jews of Medina; sharing of families and property ▪ 628? : attack on the Jews of Khaibar, and torture of prisoners ▪ 628? : taking of the Jewish oasis of Fadak as Mohammed’s personal property ▪ 628: submission of the Jews of Wadil Qora ▪ 628: Mohammed to the Jews beni Qainoqa: “if you do not embrace Islam, I declare war on you” ▪ 629: first massacres in Alexandria, Egypt ▪ 622–634: extermination of the 14 Arab Jewish tribes ▪ 630: submission of the Jews and Christians of Makna, Eilat, Jerba ▪ 638: expulsion of the Jews from Jerusalem ▪ 640: expulsion of Jews from Hedjez ▪ 643: expulsion of the Jews from Khaibar by Omar ▪ 822–861: the Islamic empire adopts a law requiring Jews to wear yellow stars (a bit like Nazi Germany), caliph al-Mutawakkil ▪ 940: beheading of the Jewish exilarch of Baghdad for having sullied the name of Mohammed ▪ 945: assassination by a crowd of fanatics of the last Jewish exilarch of Baghdad ▪ 948: closure of the Jewish theological school of Baghdad “Sora” ▪ 1004: Jews and Christians must wear a black turban and sash in Egypt ▪ 1009: Jews and Christians in Egypt must wear a cross or bells in the baths ▪ 1009: destruction of the Holy Sepulcher of Jerusalem by the Fatimids ▪ 1010–1013: start of massacre of hundreds of Jews around Cordoba ▪ 1016: Jews are persecuted and driven out of Kairouan ▪ 1010: persecution of Christians, Jews and Sunnis by the Fatimid caliph Al Hakim ▪ 1032: 5 to 6,000 Jews killed in a riot in Fez and expulsion of survivors ▪ 1040: beheading of the Jewish theologian Gaon Chizkiya, head of a Talmudic school ▪ 1106: Ali Ibn Yousef Ibn Tashifin of Marrakech decrees the death penalty for any local Jew, including his Jewish doctor, and his military general. ▪ 1148: the Almohads of Morocco give Jews the choice of converting to Islam or being expelled ▪ 1057: capture and pillage of Kairouan by the Hilalian tribes; expulsion of Jews and certain Muslims ▪ 1066: Massacre of thousands of Jews in Granada in Muslim-occupied Spain ▪ 1073: start of persecution against Jews and Christians by the Turks in Jerusalem ▪ 1127: in Morocco, after the failure of the prophetic movement of the Jewish messiah Moshe Dhery, wave of persecutions and forced conversions ▪ 1142: start of persecution against the Jews by the Almohads; massacre in Tlemcen, Bougie, Oran ▪ 1145: the Jews of Tunis must choose between conversion and exile ▪ 1146: capture of Meknes by the Almohads; persecution of the Jews ▪ 1147: capture of Tlemcen by the Almohads; persecution of the Jews ▪ 1147: Almohad invasion of Spain: expulsion of Jews or forced conversions ▪ 1147: capture of Marrakech by the Almohads; persecution of the Jews ▪ 1147: start of Almohad persecutions against the Jews of North Africa ▪ 1148: start of the exodus of Maimonides fleeing the intolerance of the Almohads ▪ 1148: Almohadin of Morocco gives Jews the choice of converting to Islam or being expelled. ▪ 1152: advent of Abd el Moumin in Morocco; choice for Christians and Jews between conversion or death ▪ 1159: controversy between Maimonides and the rabbi of Fez on the attitude towards forcible converts ▪ 1160: capture of Ifriqiya by the Moroccans of Abd el Moumen; Jews and Christians must choose between death and conversion; Jews are converted by force and superficially. ▪ 1165–1178: Yemen: Jews throughout the country were given the choice (under the new constitution) to convert to Islam or die ▪ 1165: chief rabbi of the Maghreb burned alive. The Rambam fled to Egypt. ▪ 1165: flight of Maimonides to Egypt to escape the Almohads ▪ 1171: in Egypt, decree recalling obedience to ordinances concerning the submission of Jewish and Christian infidels under penalty of death ▪ 1184: the Almohads impose distinctive signs on Christians and Jews in Spain ▪ 1198: forced conversion of the Jews of Aden ▪ 1220: tens of thousands of Jews killed by Muslims after being blamed for the Mongol invasion, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Egypt ▪ 1232: massacre of the Jews of Marrakech ▪ 1266: the tomb of the Patriarchs of Hebron is converted into a mosque and closed to Jews and Christians
This is where we disagree on basic fundamentals on human rights. I believe being displaced from were Roy were born and raised is immoral and traumatic You believe someone saying "no" to colonizing a place based on the concept that your great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandparents might have once lived there is immoral. The goal of the colonizing movement was for Jewish people in Europe to escape persecution from Europe and they chose a place for a safe haven that allegedly in your view has an eternal group of Jew haters.
Sorry list was too long. I'll cut some and start at 1700. ▪ 1700: massacre of Jews in Yemen ▪ 1747 : Massacres de Mashhad, Iran ▪ 1758: executions of a Jew and an Armenian in Constantinople for violation of the legislation on the clothing of infidels ▪ 1770: expulsion of Jews from Jeddah in Arabia ▪ 1785 : Tripoli Porom, Libya ottomane ▪ 1790–92: Pogrom of Tetouan. Morocco (Jews of Tetouan undressed and lined up) ▪ 1790: destruction of most of the Jewish communities in Morocco ▪ 1800: new decree adopted in Yemen, prohibiting Jews from wearing new or good clothes. Jews were forbidden to ride mules or donkeys, and were sometimes rounded up for long, naked marches through the Roob al Khali desert. ▪ 1805: 1st pogrom in Ottoman Algeria against the Jews of Algiers after a famine. French consul Dubois-Thainville saves 200 Jews by sheltering them in his consulate. ▪ 1805: exile of Jews from Algiers to Tunis and Livorno ▪ 1805, the leader of the Jewish Nation of Algiers, Naphthalie Busnach, is killed while riots ravage the neighborhoods. ▪ 1806: expulsion by fatwa of the Jews of Sali in Morocco ▪ 1806: ban on Moroccan Jews wearing Western clothing ▪ 1806: the janissaries of the dey of Algiers massacre and pillage in the Jewish quarter ▪ 1807: expulsion of Jews from Tetouan ▪ 1808: 1st massacres in the Mellah ghetto, North Africa ▪ 1815, the chief rabbi of Algiers, Isaac Aboulker, is beheaded during a riot. ▪ 1815: the Jews of Algiers are forced to fight against an invasion of locusts ▪ 1815: 2nd pogrom of Algiers, Ottoman Algeria ▪ 1816: in Algeria, ban on carrying weapons for Jews and Christians ▪ 1820: Massacres of Sahalu Lobiant, Ottoman Syria ▪ 1828 : pogrom de Baghdad, Iraq ottoman ▪ 1830: 3rd pogrom of Algeria, Ottoman Algeria ▪ 1830: start of the persecution of Jews in Persia, caused by the Russian advance in the Caucasus ▪ 1830: ethnic cleansing of Jews in Tabriz, Iran ▪ 1834: 2nd pogrom of Hebron, Ottoman Palestine ▪ 1834 : Pogrom de Safed, Palestine ottomane ▪ 1838: Druze attack in Safed, Ottoman Palestine ▪ 1839: Massacre of the Mashadi Jews, Iran ▪ 1839: forced conversion of surviving Jews from Mashadi ▪ 1839: campaign of forced conversions of Iranian Jews ▪ 1840: persecution of the Jews of Damascus; ritual murder case ▪ 1840: forced conversion of the Jews of Mashadi ▪ 1841: massive murders of Jews in Morocco; the sultan is obliged to consider the Jews as his personal property, which helps to protect them ▪ 1840: Damascus, ritual murders (French Muslims and Christians kidnapped, tortured and killed Jewish children for entertainment), Ottoman Syria ▪ 1844: 1st Cairo massacre, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1847: Dayr al-Qamar Pogrom, Liban ottoman ▪ 1847: ethnic cleansing of Jews in Jerusalem, Ottoman Palestine ▪ 1848: 1st pogrom of Damascus, Syria ▪ 1848: total disappearance of the Jews of Mashhad ▪ 1850: 1st pogrom of Aleppo, Ottoman Syria ▪ 1854: anti-Jewish pogrom in Demnate, Morocco ▪ 1857: beheading in Tunis of the Jewish coachman Batou Sfez, accused of blasphemy, while he was drunk ▪ 1860: 2nd pogrom of Damascus, Ottoman Syria ▪ 1862: 1st pogrom of Beirut, Ottoman Lebanon ▪ 1866 : pogrom at Kuzguncuk, Turquie Ottomane ▪ 1867: Barfurush massacre, Ottoman Türkiye ▪ 1868: Eyub Pogrom, Ottoman Türkiye ▪ 1869: Massacre of Tunis, Ottoman Tunisia ▪ 1869: Massacre of Sfax, Ottoman Tunisia ▪ 1864–1880: Marrakech massacre, Morocco ▪ 1870: 2nd Alexandria massacres, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1870: 1st pogrom in Istanbul, Ottoman Türkiye ▪ 1871: 1st Damanhur massacres, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1872: Massacres in Edirne, Ottoman Türkiye ▪ 1872: 1st pogrom of Izmir, Ottoman Türkiye ▪ 1873: 2nd massacre of Damanhur, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1874: 2nd pogrom of Izmir, Ottoman Türkiye n.
▪ 1874: 2nd pogrom of Istanbul, Ottoman Türkiye ▪ 1874: 2nd pogrom of Beirut, Ottoman Lebanon ▪ 1875: 2 pogrom in Aleppo, Ottoman Syria ▪ 1875: Massacre on the island of Djerba, Ottoman Tunisia ▪ 1877 : 3e massacre de Damanhur, Egypte ottomane ▪ 1877: Pogrom of Mansura, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1882: Massacre of Homs, Ottoman Syria ▪ 1882: 3rd massacre of Alexandria, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1889: after the funeral of a rabbi, deemed too discreet, the Jewish cemetery of Baghdad was confiscated ▪ 1889: looting of the Jewish quarter of Baghdad ▪ 1890: 2nd Cairo massacre, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1890, 3e pogrom de Damas, Syrie ottomane ▪ 1891: 4th massacre of Damanahur, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1897: murders in Tripoli, Ottoman Libya ▪ 1903&1907: Taza & Settat, pogroms, Morocco ▪ 1890: Massacres of Tunis, Ottoman Tunisia ▪ 1901–1902: 3rd Cairo massacre, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1901–1907: 4th Alexandria massacres, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1903: 1st Port Said massacres, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1903–1940: Pogroms of Taza and Settat, Morocco ▪ 1904: massacre of Jews in Yemen ▪ 1907: Casablanca, pogrom, Morocco ▪ 1908: 2nd Port Said massacre, Ottoman Egypt ▪ 1909: comment from the British vice-consul of Mosul: “The attitude of Muslims towards Christians and Jews is that of a master towards his slaves.” ▪ 1910: blood libel of Shiraz ▪ 1911: Shiraz pogrom ▪ 1912: 4th Fez, Pogrom, Morocco ▪ 1914: expulsion of Jews from Palestine old enough to bear arms by the Ottomans ▪ 1917: Jewish Inquisition of Baghdadi, Ottoman Empire ▪ 1918–1948: adoption of a law prohibiting the raising of a Jewish orphan, Yemen ▪ 1920: Irbid massacres: British mandate in Palestine ▪ 1920–1930: Arab riots, British Mandate Palestine ▪ 1921: 1st Jaffa riots, British Mandate Palestine ▪ 1922: Massacres of Djerba, Tunisia ▪ 1922: law of forced conversion of orphans in Yemen, concerning Jews including as adults ▪ 1927: 60 Jews killed by Arabs in the Mellah of Casablanca Morocco ▪ 1928: Massacres of Ikhwan, in Egypt and under British mandate in Palestine. ▪ 1928: Jewish orphans sold into slavery and forced to convert to Islam by the Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen ▪ 1929: anti-Jewish riots, British mandate: in August 1929, the Jews demanded the construction of the Western Wall; pogroms in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed. To stop the violence, Hebron Massacre. the British reject this request ▪ 1929: 3rd Hebron Pogrom under British Mandate Palestine. ▪ 1929 3e pogrom de Safed, mandate britannique Palestine. ▪ 1933: 2nd Jaffa riots, British mandate in Palestine. ▪ 1934: Anti-Jewish pogrom in Constantine Algeria. 200 Jewish stores were raided, the total material damage was estimated at more than 150 million francs. It also sent a quarter of Constantine’s Jewish population into poverty. ▪ 1934: Pogroms in Thrace, Türkiye ▪ 1934: 1st massacres in Farhud, Iraq ▪ 1936: 3rd Jaffa riots, British Mandate Palestine ▪ 1936: 2e massacre of Farhud, Irak ▪ 1938: boycott of Jews in Egypt ▪ 1939: discovery of 3 bombs in synagogues in Cairo ▪ 1941 : 3e massacre de Farhud, Iraq ▪ 1941: persecution of Jews in Libya ▪ 1941: massacre of Jews in Baghdad, with the support of the authorities: approx. 170 dead ▪ 1942: collaboration of the mufti with the Nazis. Plays a role in the final solution ▪ 1942: Struma disaster, Türkiye ▪ 1942: Nile Delta pogroms, Egypt ▪ 1938–1945: Arab collaboration with the Nazis ▪ 1942: discriminatory tax law of Varlik Vergisi in Turkey against Jews and Christians ▪ 1942: looting of Jewish property in Benghazi and deportation to the desert ▪ 1944: attack on the Jewish quarter of Damascus ▪ 1945: anti-Jewish and anti-Christian riots in Egypt; churches and synagogues destroyed ▪ 1945: 4th Cairo massacre, Egypt ▪ 1945: Pogrom of Tripoli, Libya ▪ 1947: segregation measures against Jews in Egypt ▪ 1947: pogrom in Libya; approx. 130 dead ▪ 1947 : Pogroms d’Aden au Yemen ▪ 1947: 3rd pogrom d’Alep, Syrie ▪ 1948: “emptying” of the Jewish quarter of Damascus, Syria ▪ 1948: 1st Arab-Israeli war (1 Jew killed in 100) ▪ 1948 : Oujda & Jerada Pogroms, Morocco ▪ 1948: 1st Libyan Inquisition of the Jews ▪ 1948: attacks by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood against Jewish traders ▪ 1950: massive departure of Jews from Arab countries ▪ 1951: 2nd Libyan Inquisition of the Jews ▪ 1952: anti-Jewish and anti-Christian pogroms in Suez ▪ 1954: assassinations and attacks in Algeria affecting the Jewish community, the desecration and destruction of 30 synagogues are attributed to Muslim populations. ▪ The desecration in 1960 of the synagogue of Algiers as well as the cemetery of Oran, ▪ 1954: Massacre of Sidi Kacem. 6 Jews were beaten and then burned alive with their children. ▪ 1955: anti-Jewish and Christian riots in Türkiye; looting of churches and Jewish stores ▪ 1955: attack on the rabbi of Batna, ▪ 1956: fire in a synagogue in Oran, ▪ 1956: in response to the attack on Suez, Nasser expels almost all Jews from Egypt, around 90,000 people, and confiscates their property ▪ 1957: murder of the rabbi of Nedroma, ▪ 1957: murder of the rabbi of Médéa, ▪ 1957–1962: attacks in the Jewish neighborhoods of Oran and Constantine. ▪ 1961: grenade thrown into a synagogue in Boghari, Bousaada, ▪ 1961: ransacking of the Casbah synagogue in Algiers, ▪ September 2, 1961, the assassination of a Jewish hairdresser in Oran and anti-Jewish attacks ▪ 1955 : 3rd pogrom d’Istanbul, Turkey ▪ 1955: anti-Jewish riots in Izmir ▪ 1956: 1st Egyptian Inquisition of the Jews ▪ 1956: in response to the attack on Suez, Nasser expels tens of thousands of Jews and confiscates their property ▪ 1960: a Saudi newspaper describes Eichmann: “the man who can be proud of having killed five million Jews” ▪ 1961: in Algeria, assassination of Jewish musician Sheik Raymond ▪ 1962: desecration of the Jewish cemetery of Oran ▪ 1962 : pogrom d’Oran ▪ July 5, 1962, a few days after the independence of Algeria, between 900 and 1,300 Europeans, notably Jews, were massacred in Oran. ▪ 1964: the Egyptian army weekly notes: “In essence, the Jew has no qualifications to bear arms.” ▪ 1964: Nasser tells a German neo-Nazi newspaper: “No one takes seriously the lie of 6 million murdered Jews” ▪ 1965: the Egyptian military manual presents the war against Israel as a jihad and quotes the Koran: “kill them wherever you reach them” ▪ 1965: wave of anti-Semitism in Algeria; flight of the Jewish community ▪ 1965: pogrom in Aden ▪ 1965: 5th pogrom in Fez, Morocco ▪ 1967: 2nd Egyptian Inquisition of the Jews ▪ 1967: Egyptian Jews are herded into camps during the Six Day War ▪ 1967: pogrom in Libya during the Six Day War ▪ 1967: pogroms in Tunisia ▪ 1967: the World Islamic Congress in Amman declares that Jews living in Arab countries must be considered “mortal enemies” ▪ 1967: pogrom in Aden ▪ 1967: arson of the great synagogue of Tunis ▪ 1967: riots in Tunis, Tunisia ▪ 1967: World Islamic Congress in Jordan; it was decided that all Muslim governments must treat Jews “as mortal enemies”. ▪ 1967: publication in Egypt of the anti-Semitic text “The Protocol of the Elders of Zion” ▪ 1967: pogrom and looting of Jewish stores in Tunisia ▪ 1969: Khomeini delivers thirteen speeches in Najaf which will be the basis of his book “The Islamic Government”; he develops the theme of hatred of Jews, accused of conspiring against Islam everywhere ▪ 1969: execution of Jews in Baghdad ▪ 1970: flight SR-330 Zurich — Tel Aviv crashes in a forest near Würenlingen, killing all 47 occupants. A bomb planted by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine exploded 9 minutes after takeoff ▪ 1979: start of the flight of 200,000 Iranian Jews after the Islamist revolutio
Did you copy and paste a list or did you muster up intellectual curiosity to examine each event and it's context? When people spam copy and paste lists like this as if it's some type of "ownage" without a shred of intellectual curiosity then you are just doing propaganda.
Not eternal. They didn't hate Jews before 600AD. In fact, many have Jewish genetics and ancestors and were converted by the sword such as what is going on in Africa as we speak. They are all brothers, cousins, family like all of humankind. I believe peaceful people should be free to live wherever they want under the law. You do not live in your ancestral homeland and neither do I, nor almost anyone on this message board. In fact, there are 2 million Palestinians living peacefully IN Israel. If it wasn't for constant terror attacks, pogroms and massacres for decades (or centuries) leading up to the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, there never would have been a Nakba.
Palestinians were being displaced well before 1948. In fact some of your out of context randomized list that yy have zero intellectual curiosity over and just spam without a shred of research includes events where Palestinians lashed out because they were being displaced. Ask yourself if a white American waxing lyrical about manifest density in 1800 America could conjure up a list of Native Americans victimizing British and American settlers. Those displacements are justified by talking points about how it was merely people selling land and property.
so you created this list after your own research of the context of each event? Do you want me to list to you some random ass events you just copy and pasted with this list that has no relevance to Palestinians? Your list includes Spain and other irrelevant events. It's just a spam list. It's a list where you don't even know 90% of the context of the events. You just copy and pasted it.
Yup as expected. Dude just saw a tweet and a long list. Long lists, thick stacks of papers... Common tactic amongst propagandists who just care about talking points rather than sincerity. It's the modern way the gop launders policy positions through a thin veneer of intellectual thought through "think tanks". Produce papers with long lists of citations hoping that the long list is what makes the conclusions made credible because they understand how lazy modern legacy media institutions are. Bjorn Lomborg used this tactic to great success in becoming famous and wealthy with his climate denialism books that had long lists of citations that fooled lazy media folks into believing "long list= credibility"
Jews were also being displaced well before 1948 as well and not because they decided to sell their land. And not because they were commiting constant terror attacks or following an ideology or book or prophet that teaches them to hate Muslims. It is not a "randomized list" or "spam". It is a historical list of actual events that you are free to research and investigate yourself. Why is it whenever you respond you try to then cut down, belittle, degrade and call names? This is an ongoing theme for you.
