Ya I don’t agree at all, I would not want him on that contract and would try to trade him if you could get something. Same for towns
Sorry, but this is a bad take. The nba is full of players with good efficiency who don’t score a lot, because it’s easy to be efficient if you’re just taking the easy shots. On no planet is a player who averages 14 ppg better than a 21 ppg player. It’s an absurd argument.
I think Sengun will be better than Sabonis too--he already is as a scorer IMO. I'm just saying, Sabonis is a very good player. People were saying the same things about Minnesota and KAT last season, he's too soft, bad on defense... they put Ant and Gobert next to him and suddenly they have the best record in the West. Even if Sengun barely gets any better than he is today (which is unlikely) he's already good enough to be worth max money and I think you work on building around his weaknesses and trying to find a star perimeter player to pair him with regardless of whether he ends up being our best or second-best player.
The reason why Sabonis was more efficient was because he was not the focal point of their offense. In his third year, he scored 14 ppg, shooting only 9.5 attempts per game. Sengun is averaging 21 pt on 15.6 shots. It is easier to be efficient when you are not the first scoring option and can pick your spot. The data also match the eye test. Sabonis typically scores in the flow of the offense while Sengun is relied on creating points.
Sabonis scored 14 points on .63 TS% v. Sengun this year with a .59 TS%. Both are really good TS% numbers. You worry about that difference when you compare a 21 ppg scorer to a 19 ppg scorer, NOT a 14 ppg scorer. A guy averaging 14 ppg is clearly not the focal point of an offense. As I said, it's an absurd comparison.
Obviously, scoring volume (points per game), efficiency, and type of usage all matter a lot. Basketball is not that simple
Exactly. According to @astrosrule, Derick Lively is much, much better than Sengun because he has a .74 TS%. It doesn’t matter than he’s averaging fewer than 9 ppg. All that matters is efficiency apparently.
One thing whiners are missing is that if he was good a ft/3pt shooter at 21 he would be in MVP conversations. You are basically being mad at him for not being MVP at 21.
It is not the efficiency it is the gravity that makes sengun valuable. Go watch 3rd year sabonis, how many double teams does he draw? Sengun at 21, chnages the geometry of the whole opposing defense. I think people still don't see how impactful he is on offense. And I said it before, Sengun has much better floor vision than sabonis and much better passing. Sabonis plays in a system that is catered to him and dho plays a role in his assist numbers. Sengun creates more open shots than the current sabonis if you exclude the dho's. Sac has 4 guys in most dho fga attempts in top 16. Their whole game is dho. Sengun will easily be better than prime sabonis in two years, if the rockets invest correctly in building the team. Even this year, sengun could produce similar assist numbers to Sabonis, if we were a good shooting team, despite hardly playing any dhos. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hand-off?dir=D&sort=FGA most dho fga in the whole league: PLAYER TEAM GP POSS FREQ% PPP PTS FGM FGA FG% EFG% FT FREQ% TOV FREQ% SF FREQ% AND ONE FREQ% SCORE FREQ% PERCENTILE Keegan Murray SAC 56 2.8 20.5 1.01 2.9 1.2 2.6 44.9 52.4 1.9 5.7 1.3 0.0 43.4 64.0 Kevin Huerter SAC 58 2.8 27.4 1.07 3.0 1.0 2.5 40.8 55.1 4.3 5.5 4.3 0.0 41.1 72.4 Tyler Herro MIA 37 2.8 13.7 0.86 2.4 0.9 2.3 37.6 48.2 2.9 14.6 2.9 0.0 34.0 36.4 Jamal Murray DEN 46 2.6 13.2 1.13 2.9 1.1 2.1 53.1 60.7 7.5 10.8 5.8 0.0 50.8 84.1 Desmond Bane MEM 37 2.6 11.4 0.95 2.5 0.9 2.1 41.8 50.0 8.2 12.4 8.2 2.1 40.2 54.4 Tyrese Maxey PHI 55 2.3 9.6 1.06 2.4 0.8 2.0 41.8 50.5 11.1 4.8 10.3 3.2 44.4 71.1 Devin Vassell SAS 57 2.4 13.4 0.92 2.2 0.9 2.0 45.7 49.1 7.2 10.1 6.5 1.4 43.5 45.6 Malik Monk SAC 59 2.3 15.0 0.94 2.2 0.9 1.9 45.1 54.4 2.9 15.9 2.9 0.7 38.4 51.5 Duncan Robinson MIA 56 2.1 17.4 1.04 2.2 0.8 1.9 41.3 56.3 1.7 10.2 1.7 0.0 38.1 67.8 Stephen Curry GSW 58 2.2 9.1 1.05 2.4 0.7 1.8 40.2 52.0 11.5 13.1 10.0 3.1 40.0 69.0 Donte DiVincenzo NYK 60 2.1 15.3 0.90 1.9 0.6 1.8 34.3 46.3 4.9 7.3 4.9 0.0 35.0 43.1 Cam Thomas BKN 48 2.2 10.5 0.93 2.0 0.8 1.8 41.9 45.3 11.4 7.6 10.5 1.0 44.8 50.8 Mikal Bridges BKN 62 2.0 9.8 1.10 2.2 0.8 1.6 49.5 56.2 15.2 11.2 12.8 4.0 49.6 80.8 Damian Lillard MIL 57 1.9 8.4 1.13 2.2 0.7 1.6 43.5 52.2 12.7 7.3 12.7 3.6 45.5 84.9 Tim Hardaway Jr. DAL 59 1.8 11.4 1.00 1.8 0.6 1.6 39.1 49.5 8.6 7.6 6.7 3.8 39.0 61.5 De'Aaron Fox SAC 52 1.8 7.1 1.02 1.9 0.7 1.6 42.2 51.2 8.3 6.3 7.3 1.0 42.7 66.1
He's already better than Sabonis. Some of you still can't differentiate an engine from a #2 option of a contender. Sabonis can only be #2 option because 1) He doesn't have that X factor Sengun has, meaning you can't give him the ball and get out of his way to let him do his work to bring you the W. You can spam Sengun in the elbow, he can get the ball at the top of the key, drive to the rim and torch whoever is standing in front of him. He can finish with his left and right hand. He can spin both ways and finish. You bite on his pump fakes and it's and 1! He can flamingo whoever is guarding him, he can unleash his shotput on him. Sabonis can only spin to his left, can't consistently finish with his right. His midrange isn't impressive. He's not as aggressive as Sengun attacking the rim. He has better footspeed but not better footwork which makes him a worse post player than Sengun. 2) You can't count on him in big games. He's not mentally strong enough to step up when you are down by 6 in a playoff game. You can put fear in his heart and disrupt his rhythm. Sengun performs better under the spotlights. He's more clutch. I don't know if you've ever watched their interviews but Sengun comes across a much more confident person. Personality matters a lot man. You can't build a championship caliber team with skilled cowards. Sabonis is not better than him. He averages more rebounds more assists (because he is surrounded with elite shooters) but he's not better than him. Shotmaking ability, having x factor, extra gear in you these are much important things in bb. Kings can't count on Sabonis to consistently takeover games but we can count on Sengun to do exactly that.
Sengun is not an engine right now….he might get there (i think he will) but to say he’s now someone who can drive great offense is ludicrous
I don't see any argument here just objection. Sengun literally points people who to guard who to pass. Kid is a floor general at 21. He distributes the **** out of the ball. Finds the open man almost always. If we had someone like Monk instead of Green or ****ing Tate and/or we started using Cam much earlier he would've averaged at least 7 assists.
Our offense sucks, once his efficiency improves and all that he could become an offensive engine but right now he’s not. If he was our offense wouldn’t suck
He absolutely can. He just needs to be surrounded with better shooters/cutters, and the team needs to commit to that type of offense. Stone is still trying to force Jalen Green on us.
I pretty strongly believe he will get there on offense, but his lack of efficiency is a concern (for me, I’m mostly on an island there though). The FT shooting and stuff not improving isn’t great
I agree that the FT shooting is a concern. Everything else about efficiency has context that you totally ignore. Let me give you an example. Capela in his 4th season scored 14 ppg on .650 TS%. He led the league that year on FG% and eFG%. That's much better than both Sengun and Sabonis have ever reached. Yet nobody would believe that Capela was a better offensive player than either of them.
What is your expectation for efficiency? Here is a list of players 24 or younger, ordered by fg% https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?CF=AGE*L*25:FGA*G*10&dir=A&sort=FG_PCT Sengun is 5th. Zion is better than him for sure, god he is only 23. other two are chet(very similar to sengun) and mobley, but sengun is taking 40% more shots than these guys. He is pretty much among the best young players. Let's look at ts%, which will be more reflective of his poor ft, 3pt shooting. https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=POSS*GE*1500:AGE*L*25&PerMode=PerGame&SeasonType=Regular Season&dir=A&sort=USG_PCT Here i sorted by usage percentage to have comparable sample. he is 10th in usg and better than everyone with comparable usg, except for zion and haliburton. He seems to be quite on pace to be an efficient player.
