He has not done anything that a member of clutchfans wouldn't have been able to figure out. He had top picks that were handed to him by giving him the greenlight to tank while simultaneously being able to sell off every piece of what was was left of a contending team including a generational talent still in his prime, that is like giving someone money for a Bugatti and them coming back with a new Cadillac and telling them, hey you got a great car good job negotiating. Its more about what he did/didnt do with the opportunity given to him. -Jalen Green, arguably a bust is what it looks like. Going w Barnes or Mobley we would have been much better off, the fact Toronto has a decent front office for evaluating talent historically, makes it seem like this was a calculated move and not luck. Many were surprised to see Barnes go ahead of Suggs. Again there was a rumor of OKC offering SGA for the #2 pick as well, and if he really passed on this, then that is also a mistake. -Sengun, this is a pretty good move I think Sengun is worth more than two firsts that we gave up, but this was on the front page of CFs along with the Tari Eason move and the Cam Whitmore move had every fan wondering why is he not being taken, these seemed like fairly obvious moves. -Jabari, he made the obvious pick here, dont think this involved any thinking. The only rumor was Orlando offering us to move up, and if thats true and we passed up on Paulo then we screwed up, we should have made an effort as Orlando seemed to know what they were doing here. -He pretty much mismanaged many other draft assets, if he doesnt have the skill to find value at the end of the draft he should consolidate / make trades, he has been unable to come on top of a single trade. Gave away KJ, TyTy, Garuba, Christopher for pretty much nothing, he had an opportunity to get Grimes instead. -The Harden trade result is still undetermined, he epically screwed up not getting anything for the players we got in that trade, Oladipo , Allen were mismanaged assets. So far we have Tari, we would need at least 2 more players of that caliber or one star level player for it to be a decent return. -The Eric Gordon trade that resulted in Cam is probably the only thing that he has done that i'd say was kinda above average, but when you have that many assets to trade away AND the luxury to be a lotto team 4 years in a row, I expect more.
My God, this type of logic is so absurd. Good moves = obvious. If they were so obvious, why didn’t OKC take Sengun? Or anyone take Tari? Or Cam? Give me a break.
Your logic is so dumb to be honest you realize "Clutch Fans" is a collective group of people right? With hundreds of people here naturally someone would have mentioned Sengun, Jabari, Cam... These prospects aren't exactly unknown they are on display for everyone to see. Stone was picking top lotto if he got somebody nobody here even mentioned that's just a huge ass reach. You want Fertita to hire all members of CF and have us all decide who to draft? For example OremLK wanted Amen and Noob Cake didn't want Amen. Who would decide? Just because somebody here made a post doesn't mean it was an obvious pick already lol I can't believe you would even make this post this is some of the dumbest **** I've read. In terms of draft the only obvious pick Stone has made is Jabari Smith who was consensus no 3. The others aren't obvious picks at all if Amen was so obvious how come he lasted 4? Sengun so obvious he lasted till 16? Whitmore till 20? LOL gimme a break.
we tanked for two years and got the #2 and #3 picks in successive high quality drafts, and we came away with Jalen and Jabari. That’s just not good enough. Lots of things we could have done with those picks…but we ended up with Jalen and Jabari. One guy is not a starting caliber NBA player, the other guy has the ceiling of an elite role player. I’m sorry, that’s just not good enough.
Anyone who thinks they know Jabari's "ceiling" doesn't know ball. Sorry, that's just the truth. He's 20 years old and has significantly improved virtually every observable metric of his game.
fair enough. I’m not trying to hate on bari, I actually like him and think he’ll become a very good player. But I’d be shocked if he ends up a top 5 player from that draft seeing as Chet, Paolo, and J Dub all look like much better prospects. Honestly do u really think we maximized our #2 and #3 draft picks in those drafts?
We did not maximize the #2 pick in the 2021 draft. However, we got a top 3 re-draft prospect, so I'm not too concerned. And if we took Mobley, we probably don't take Sengun. Obviously Barnes and Sengun would be ideal. In a 2022 redraft, I'm taking either Smith or Williams at 3. Probably Williams at this point, but that's with strong hindsight bias. Williams went 12th. No one would have taken him 3rd. Getting a top 4 prospect at #3 is pretty close to maximizing draft value.
I think there’s a clear top 3 from that 22’ draft and then it gets murky. Bari is in the conversation but so are guys like Sharpe, Duran, Ivey, etc. all those guys could end up being better players than Bari. Even a healthy Tari could end up better than Bari. I’m just saying that Bari is far from guaranteed to be a top 5 player in that draft, so I don’t consider Houston to have maximized that pick either. Obviously we’ll know for sure in a few more years. also, striking out on #2 with Jalen has nothing to do with making a good move later in the draft. I’d rather hit on the #2 pick and make additional good moves. I don’t see how that has to be mutually exclusive.
Furphy is another prospect getting steam. With the success of Brandon Miller and oversized shooting wings generally (Brandon Ingram, Trey Murphy, Jalen Johnson) Furphy might be another instant success. 6-9 sharpshooter with at least average athleticism, Aussie so he plays with physicality and doesn't avoid contact. Not sure what Cody Williams can do that he can't. I'm higher on this dude than anybody in GLeague Ignite. Shooting 41% for Kansas, I mean with all the hype Sheppard is getting Furphy looks like the safer bet because he is 6'9. Brandon Miller showed you don't need insane athleticism as long as you are 6'9 playing the wing and your shot translates to the NBa. This draft has so many unknowns, I'm down to trade down our draft pick and get Tipjane Salaun and Johnny Furphy.
You could say that any prospect from these drafts may be better longterm as it's too early. Paolo could have a career ending injury. That's not the point. You look at their current production and try to project. IMO, these guys are nowhere Smith at the moment. Sharpe has a .52 TS% and plays awful defense. Ivey is small, only averaging 3 assists as a PG, and plays awful defense. Duren is meh in general. None are close to Bari at the moment as prospects.
I agree that he mismanaged some draft assets. Drafting 4 players in the first round was stupid in hindsight a few years ago. But give the guy some credit, arguably the 2nd player in each of his drafts are better at this stage than first picks from each 1st round. So that did take some work, foresight and scouting.
Agreed on Jalen. We could have done better, and Sengun is unrelated. But Jabari is not really a debate. We couldn’t get Chet or Paolo without a major trade, which very rarely happens that high up the draft. Of the remaining, Jabari was the obvious pick then and probably the right pick even with hindsight (at least not clearly wrong). Then add the excess value later in those draft and what looks like a double home run this draft, ans it’s really hard to attack Stone on the draft. His flaw is decisiveness with the existing roster and coaching, not the drafting.
This is my biggest gripe with Stone critics. There are a ton of reasons to criticize Stone, but once you start criticizing his drafting (aside from Green), it's clear you're not being objective.
we blew the #2 pick as well as two late 1sts in 21’ and we blew a late 1st rounder in 22’. I’m just saying it’s mixed…objectively. But I agree that overall the drafting has been good.
The only thing dumb is your inability to comprehend, they are obvious choices for the position they were drafted. If you cant understand that Amen was picked where he was is something that was expected, maybe do a bit more research. He took guys in obvious spots, hes done nothing out of the ordinary. You've got some very minimum wage logic. You probably think Stone is brilliant because you are a simpleton.
You really think it took a lot of thought to draft Jalen, Jabari, and Amen where they were drafted? Lmao, you guys are hilarious. Stone literally could have gone to CBS Sports website and taken every single guy at the spots he took them.
LOL, if you actually believe Barnes, Mobley and Banchero will be elite players elevating their teams deep in the playoffs for their careers then you are highly delusional. Green may not be the best at his position by any means but far from a bust. Mobley wouldn't have done anything with the Rockets and we'd be saying the same thing about him anyway if he were a Rox.
