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Another day another mass shooting

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AleksandarN, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Sad indeed. You just have to hope as parents your kids don't take drugs. It's like playing Russian roulette when you take some pill not prescribed legally. Unless some kid has been off the grid with no outside news or social media they should know the dangers of fentanyl or the facts that street drugs could be laced with it. Unfortunately many teenagers feel invincible, or simply take stupid risks.

    As long as there is a huge market of people willing to buy or take illegal drugs there will always be some criminal willing to make a profit.
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Unfortunately, when a group of 5-year-old kids was slaughtered in an elementary school more than a decade ago, not even an extremely popular (~90% for) universal background check could get through Congress. Gun rights are one of those issues that people simply do not compromise on. Politicians proudly wear an AR15 on their suit right next to the American flag, symbolizing the culture (in which history will look back and wonder, really, WTF).

    As for solutions, we can look around the world for some suggestions. The US is unique in its gun violence problem but not so unique in its historical gun culture (the love for guns). Simply saying it's already illegal misses the picture. Our legal system is very weak and not only allows legal possessions in the hands of mentally ill and disturbed individuals who should not be possessing guns but also makes it much easier for people who aren't allowed to legally possess guns to do so. It's a very ineffective system due to the continuing weakening of gun regulation over the last few decades. Most modern societies do not have this issue, even those that allow individuals to have guns. Their system is much more effective at allowing guns in the hands of those that are responsible gun owners and keeping them out of the hands of those that aren't. Our system is very ineffective at that and, in fact, is quite effective at "putting" guns in the hands of those that aren't responsible gun owners.
     
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  3. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Overall on gun violence, I personally don't get bothered because it's still highly unlikely that any of us will be killed by a gun

    Again i don't want to sound defeatist but I'm not trying to get laws passed that I know won't happen because of the country's culture.

    Again a lot of this information is new to me but I think trying to make sure we enforce the standards in place is all you can do.

    The Lakewood shoote having a gunr is completely ridiculous, IClose the loopholes and try to make sure what's on the books is enforced but try to change Texas culture, if it gets to that point I'll just have take my ball to another state
     
  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    (beside my previous statement that "illegal" is essentially a red herring)

    We have some stats, but overall, our gun statistics aren't great. A main reason for that is due to Congress. Two examples I remember (there are more):

    The Dickey Amendment in the ~90s federal spending bill stated, "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control." It essentially shut down the CDC's ability to conduct research on gun violence.

    The ATF is prohibited from consolidating or centralizing records of firearms transactions, making it much more challenging to analyze trends and patterns in gun sales and the violence associated with it.
     
  6. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Kids are growing up going through gun drills in school, starting from elementary school. I didn't experience that when I was growing up. IMO, this fear contributes to the deteriorating mental state of our children in the US over the last few decades. Social media is a big culprit as well, but the fear of just not being safe anywhere is a significant cause of anxiety in children that has risen drastically.
     
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Nope.

    The fact that there are 400 million (think about that staggering number) handguns in the USA plays a huge part in the high violent crime rate committed by handguns.

    If you want no murders, then you should want to heavily restrict the availability of handguns in the USA.

    There is an estimated 13,000 murders a year in the USA where a handgun was used.

    Rifles and shot guns and assault weapons? About 1,100.
     
  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    It's amazing the fear these second amendment is my religion types have of the federal government keeping track of its citizens have
     
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I will agree based on the gun theft info that it does have something to do with the violence committed by people who can't legally process guns. That being said what do you think realistically can be done given politics and culture can be done to reduce the number of guns.

    Don't want to talk about ish that isn't practical. You want to start a civil war, try to take the guns away from gun loving law abiding citizens. Given your profession the sense of being a pratocal thinker 'm really astounded you think that can happen

    That being said the numbers don't matter other than guns getting lost because over 99% of those guns are the hands people who aren't going to kill anyone

    The criminal might not have even a million of those guns.
     
  10. AroundTheWorld

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    In our kids' school, they aren't super explicit with the children in lower school when they do the drill - it's labeled as "if something happens". But yeah, it's really INSANE that these types of drills are even necessary.
     
  11. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    But how am I going to protect myself from a tyrannical government without a 9mm?
     
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  12. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Life in prison for committing a crime with a firearm. 20 years for being a felon in possession of a firearm. Juveniles who use guns tried as adults. You will see gun violence plummet. Everyone knows what is driving gun crime and it isn't assault weapons, lack of background checks for private party transfers, or any of the other nonsense that gets talked about in the gun control debate. A huge percentage of gun violence in perpetrated by a small number of hyperviolent people, mostly in the inner city, mostly gang related, and increasingly by juveniles who have much less severe penalties.
     
  13. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Hot heads arguing used to flip the bird or throw punches. Now they just pull out a gun and start shooting. Just a typical day in America now in a country with more guns than people.

    Shooting at Indianapolis Waffle House leaves 1 dead, 5 injured, police say

    One woman was killed and five more were wounded when an argument escalated to gunfire at a Waffle House restaurant in Indianapolis early Monday, police said.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...ffle-house-leaves-1-dead-5-injured-police-say
     
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    J want an assault rifle ban because they have one function, mass destruction. What is the logic of them being legal other than satisfying gun enthusiasts interests. I don't disagree with your overall premise that the overwhelming majority of gun violence is committed by people who these laws wouldn't affect,.

    Mass shootings and their media coverage have distorted people's understanding of Amercan gun violence. There were 313 casualties of active shooters in 2022 out of 22,000 homicides
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Again there is no simple or fast solution that will greatly reduce the amount of firearms or firearm deaths in the US. Simply doing nothing isn’t the answer.

    Consider that smoking was so accepted and wide spread not that long ago that you could smoke on airplanes. While we still have a lot of people who smoke the numbers of
    People who smoke is coming down and most people accept limits on smoking. Just a few decades ago the tobacco lobby seemed unbeatable but we saw legislation passed and the culture is changing.
     
  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    If someone wants an effective firearm, it is hard to do better than what would be classified under every proposed AWB as an assault weapon. A better question is why ban them knowing that they are not a major contributor to gun violence. You have even acknowledged that media coverage has distorted people's understanding of American gun violence. Why on Earth would you want to pass laws entirely premised on that distorted understanding? Why not pass the completely reasonable and effective laws I suggest instead, laws that actually deal with the issues that truly exist instead of the delusions created by biased media coverage?
     
  17. Kim

    Kim Member

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    I'm too lazy to look this up now, but I think weapons enhancements sentencing for crimes - that practice has been deemed unconstitutional or something.
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    How do you define effective firearm?
     
  19. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I think Democrats need to be honest about the overwhelming majority of gun violence coming from the usual suspects. Again out of 22,000 gun deaths, Only 313, the most ever in a year came from active shooter incidents.

    As much as this thread thrives on the next gun death from a legal gun owner flipping out on someone, how many gun deaths are about that.

    Republicans are in their zone in this debate because they for sometimes nefarious reasons don't mind talking about inner city crime.

    Democrats don't want talk about the inner city in a negative way. They are committed to Black progress,, fighting institutional racism, and so on.

    I will say that there are still a lot more gun deaths than inner city violence. @deb4rockets has been pointing out domestic violence , there are about 4,000 annually.

    All ofthat being said no one on either side has a handle on how many gun deaths could have been prevented by just basic criminal history and mental health backups checks. And that I think the simplest place to start is making a standard federal check and I guess Democrats do favor that. So maybe harsher sentencing on people committing gun violence while not legally able to process them can be a compromise.
     
  20. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Definitely not. California has firearm enhancements for all crimes and more severe enhancements that only apply to certain crimes.
    Effective = A tool that does the job for which it was designed well and with maximum ease of use.
    Firearm = A weapon which operates by firing a projectile at a high rate of speed, generally through the use of an explosive propellant (could an air rifle or magnetic rail gun be a firearm?)
     

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