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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    did you vote for Romney in 2012?
     
  2. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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    Crazy to me that neocon corporate raider Mittens is the 'good guy' now. ****ing hell.
     
    glynch and Invisible Fan like this.
  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    I agree with Trump -- all aid to any international country should be in the form of a LOAN. They need to pay it back when times are good. That is only fair.
     
  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    The rest of the world (well, except russia, china, north korea, and the rest of our enemies) will further distance themselves from trump America.

     
  5. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Fine by me.

    My QoL won't drop an ounce if we leave NATO.
     
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    It's a selfish way to think but your opinion to have.
     
  8. HTM

    HTM Member

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    You were in favor of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan right?

    Guess that makes you pro-Taliban.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. HTM

    HTM Member

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    It's selfish to spend $1 trillion dollars a year on defense and run a deficit in such a way that will make the U.S. debt $150 trillion dollars in 30 years.

    That's the real national security risk most are too blind to see.
     
    El_Conquistador likes this.
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    I don't think I expressed a position on Afghanistan. Go ahead and search to find a position I expressed. My guess it it supports staying in Afghanistan since most times I get accused of being a war-mongerer and world's policeman. But again, I probably didn't post much if anything, so knock yourself out.

    But even your attempt to "whatabout" makes no sense. You want the United States to pull out of NATO, a historically vital alliance of 30 countries that protects the security of the U.S. and allies via political and military agreement. An insane move only supported by trump and putin.
     
  11. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Wonder how much support Putin would have if he were a few shades darker?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. HTM

    HTM Member

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    lol ok. You were down for the U.S. staying in Afghanistan forever and spending trillions more there. Sure.

    The vast majority were in support of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan.

    The U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan was an incidental benefit to the Taliban.

    The U.S. withdrawal from NATO would be an incidental benefit to Russia if Russia wants to fight with its neighbors.

    I don't want Russia to wage war against its neighbors but I also don't think its the American people or American tax payers responsibility to make sure Putin doesn't.

    Lots of bad stuff happening all over the world every day. Lots of conflicts, lots of people starving, lots of tragedy. The American people aren't/shouldn't responsible to make sure none of that happens. Including in Eastern Europe.
     
  13. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Long winded response. But the two situations were and are completely different. We aren't sending troops to Ukraine... we are helping them defend the country from russian aggression which is in the U.S.'s strategic interest. btw, we are also sending financial support to Israel and Taiwan. Again, supporting our strategic best interest.

    And getting back to you wanting the U.S. to leave NATO, regurgitating putin's and his puppet's desired outcome)...
     
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  14. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Holding the position the U.S. should withdrawal from Afghanistan was the Talibans desired outcome.

    Doesn't make someone pro-Taliban.

    Holding the position the U.S. should draw down its military and international commitments, including its commitment to NATO doesn't make you pro-Russia.

    Also, we simply cannot afford this. Something you never address.
     
  15. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Contributing Member

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    Grifters all think alike, you don't think about what's "right" or the humane thing...........you look for despair and then capitalize on it, trump got that from his dad who was a slum lord and then he took it up a notch with failing businesses left and right................it's why he never pays his bills and stiffs all the lawyers and then grifts Uncle Joe and Aunt Mae for $5.00 in which $4.99 goes to his lawyers and .1 to the campaign. Not to mention he is a convicted sexual offender and has to pay that poor lady $87 million which he will grift for the majority of that, and you TJ will happily pay to him

    But you know that tj......you just gotta troll LOL.
     
  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    I have already answered this... I voted for President Obama. That said, Romney has been a much respected republican. Since you have asked twice... is there a reason why?
     
  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    I think maintaining a strong defense and maintaining strong relationships with allies is a key goal of our government. NATO makes even more sense since it spreads the responsibility across more countries. Why do you think putin wants the U.S. to leave NATO and for NATO to weaken?
     
  18. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    What do you mean by "we simply cannot afford this."???

    I'm critical often about the military industrial complex, but I'm realistic that the money spent on military spending isn't going away. It'll be spend elsewhere I can assure you that, and with the Ukraine aid almost all of that spending is actually just going to American industry. It's basically a big stimulus bill, but just not on the industries you and I would prefer. Some might even call Lockheed, Raytheon, L3, etc. as evil, but they are American companies.

    So let's set aside the morality of investing into Lockheed, etc. and just focus on the spending/fiscal responsibility. Why is it that the United States cannot afford to spend money on American manufacturing?

    Then from a foreign policy perspective tell me why it's not a good investment of US time and resources to make sure that dictators are not allowed to just invade their neighbors for their resources, and why it's not a good investment of our time to ensure that a hostile dictator who literally wants America in ruin to take a country that is called "The Breadbasket of the World" who supplies half of the grain to developing countries so he can hold those countries hostage essentially by literally starving them out???

    You do realize that if Ukraine is taken over by Putin, he will cut off grain supply to Africa, and GUESS WHO will then be morally obligated to then SPEND ALOT OF AID to make sure Africa and many developing countries are literally not starving to death, or bending the knee to the worlds most brutal dictator???

    I don't know how we cannot afford to do something here man. We will spend more in the longrun, and what we spend... as morally bankrupt as Lockheed, and Raytheon are.... is going back into our economy anyways as a stimulus.
     
    NewRoxFan likes this.
  19. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Just to restate again.... The United States will be spending just as much in aid to developing countries who are starved out, and exploited by Putin if he takes over Ukraine. Not to mention we'll again be dealing with another surge in immigration from refugees in the region.
     

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