Fred VanVleet will be the worst FA acquisition in Rockets history

I was Fredboozled!

 

I know what happened, you thought they signed Drake! Now that makes sense. Such good dance moves.

 

"Sum is great than the parts" was the description of synergy in '80s management courses. I don't think FVV is a good example of synergy.

 

He isn't overpaid cuz his contract has team options baked in. He basically took a premium so his contract can be more flexible.

For example Amen looks like he can be the starter after next year. If we signed Fred for like 30M for the next 4 yrs we have money tied to a backup pg.instead now we got an expiring next year so we can trade FVV for more assets or clear cap for a free agent.

 

For the 2 years that his contact is guaranteed, he is vastly overpaid.

 

But his contract is 4 yrs not 2 so you can't slice and dice it like that. It's like if his contract is front loaded and you just focus on the front loaded part and whine about it.

LOL wtf

 

Sure I can. FVV did not deserve that sort of contract regardless of how many unguaranteed years it came with, period. Ime wanted him, we were trash and desperate.

 

That's just not true. Having an unguaranteed amount pushes the guaranteed amount up, just cuz you dont recognize that doesn't make your take true.

FVV is playing well for a signing, 16 pts, 8 ast and 37% 3pt on 7 attempts isn't exactly bad production. Of course you are free to say he is overpaid, but you'd be wrong for the reasons I already said.

 

There is no valid argument against FVV being overpaid. In no way is he a true max player. Not only do the numbers back that up but his impact on winning to go with it. They both fall short of what a real max player is. It’s that simple. Folks still trying to tell themselves he isn’t overpaid are just delusional and living in an alternate reality

nothing has changed with him. He came in capped as a good solid player. Never good enough to carry a team throughout the season. Nothing more and he got overpaid for it bc the rockets were that desperate

 

We are paying FVV $40.8M this season. We will be paying him $42.8M next season. You are out if your freaking gourd if you think for even a second that is not an extreme overpay or that he deserves it simply because the 3rd year is not guaranteed.

 

That is true but truth be told, this is one of the times money is not telling the whole story.....but the length of his contract.

I would have given him an even shorter contract though........

The question was if Stone could have found 2 elite bench players whom he could split 20 and 20 + millions on.........

If not then yeah.......

 

You're the only one that get it

 

FVV also makes very few tactical mistakes and is very low turnover. He is literally the polar opposite of what KPJ was and turned what was a liability (poor decisions, extremely high turnover rate into a strength.)

His impact on the team is clearly positive in many ways. His +7.3 On/Off shows rookie mistakes appearing in quantity when he isn't handling the ball.

 

The 3rd year not being guaranteed is what makes it not be overpay you basically paid a premium for it not to be guaranteed. Players of FVV status and above don't sign unguaranteed/team option deals. Why will FVV sign a 2 yr deal with team options when he can stay in Toronto and sign a 5 yr deal for more job security if the money is the same? Like why don't you use common sense and logic?

You realize Pacers did this with Bruce Brown too right? Brown was looking at midlevel-13M a year, Pacers offered him 40M over 2 yrs with only 1 yr guaranteed. Omg what an overpay Pacers are so dumb and desperate

https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...act-offer-nba-40-million-2-years/70430841007/

If you cant do more than surface level evaluation then there's nothing to be had more on this discussion, when Stone trades FVV next year to make way for Amen the fact that he was able to do it just because of FVV "overpaid" deal is clearly gonna go over your head.

 

Doubt.

 

See the difference between you and I is that you seem to consider giving a player a contract that they are willing to accept and overpaying them as mutually exclusive things. I do not.

"Why will FVV sign a 2 yr deal with team options when he can stay in Toronto and sign a 5 yr deal for more job security if the money is the same? Like why don't you use common sense and logic?"
No crap he wouldn't. At the same time however, it doesn't make the contract we did offer him as a vast overpay. He accepted it because we threw out a number that was outrageously more than what he knew he was ever worth per year and would likely never, ever see again. Again, the two are not mutually exclusive things.

"when Stone trades FVV next year to make way for Amen the fact that he was able to do it just because of FVV "overpaid" deal is clearly gonna go over your head."
What point are you even trying to make? Teams trade players on overpaid contacts all the time. Just because another team takes on FVV's contract next year for cap relief the year after still does not undo the fact that FVV was paid far above his worth.

At the end of the day, there is no universe out there outside the fantasy one in your mind where FVV earned $40M. The 3rd year being a team option just makes it more tolerable / manageable.

 

I never once claimed FVV doesn't help the team. It was clear that he would on a team full of rookies. My position is that between giving him the contract we did and not having him, I would much rather have gone the latter route. Personally, I wanted Harden. Udoka didn't want him, I get that and accept that. Udoka wanted FVV, I respect that but just not at that price.

 

Why is this thread getting bumped with people arguing about whether FVV was an overpay? News flash: Everyone knew that already. We all knew it was an overpay, and it was an overpay that had to happen. The Rockets were the laughing stock of the league, were garbage on both ends of the floor, needed a very specific kind of player and had zero leverage to make that happen. They also had an absurd amount of cap room just sitting there with no one worth spending it on who'd be worth it.

It was an overpay, but a reasonable one given the shorter guaranteed years and the huge need at point guard and for veteran leadership. But Fred has been everything he was advertised as, has outplayed expectations and has easily been the second best player on the team all season. Are we at that point in the season where everyone is surprised we're mediocre and looking for something to be mad at?

 

if Fred’s current production is considered outplaying expectations then yikes

but I see Fred is the latest in a long line of “this contract will be used to trade for a star”

 

I think he is the perfect example of synergy. When he's on the court, he has a Net+ effect. When he's off the court, there is a Net- effect. I think I saw that it is like an 8 point swing. His raw stats don't tell that story.

He's definitely not a max player. As proof of that, max players don't sign contracts with 2 years of team options.

The thread title is silly. FVV is no-where near the "worst" contract ever. Wasn't it Matt Maloney that the Rockets cut him and carried his contract for like 3 more years? I feel like he's still under contract to this day! Or was that Bryce Drew?