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Hamas attacks Israel: Yom Kippur War, 50 years on

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Oct 7, 2023.

  1. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Always problematic to take Hamas, ISIS, Al-Qaeda dudes prisoner.

    Folks who are committed to extremist ideologies are nearly impossible to rehabilitate. Sure, it happens every so often, but how in good conscious can you ever release the vast majority back into society very well knowing they would murder you and everyone you care about given the opportunity?
     
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  2. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    That kid couldn't possibly be oppressed because he's... wearing a suit.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

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    Your mistake.

    BTW, his brother got murdered by Hamas terrorists.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I am aware that his brother was murdered by Hamas.

    I have empathy for him losing someone he loves.

    However, he also is not remotely objective on the topic.
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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    He is totally right about calling it fake oppression and fabricated occupation.
     
  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    That is a very hard argument to make it good faith.

    I know you believe it and I respect you - but objectively it is almost impossible to argue that the Palestinians have not been occupied (and still are) and that they have not been oppressed, because they have been by many measures.

    I say that as someone that would rather the situation was black and white because the proper solution would be far simpler that it actually is.
     
  7. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    USA will recognize the state of palestine alongside the british. This is a huge effin deal @Nook

    Big moves are happening behind closed doors
     
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  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Calling the bluff - we will recognize and help establish the Palestinian state if you keep pushing to turn Gaza and the OT into part of Israel.

    I would have to think that Israel backs off - even if it is only for the time being.

    It is so clear that some want to exploit this situation - be it to expand Israel, or to cause chaos in the Middle East to expand extremism.
     
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  9. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    I don't think it's a bluff. Biden knows he needs Muslim support against Trump this November and I wouldn't be surprised if they're pushing for statehood to win the voters back.

    According to leaks the British nd Americans are 100% on board with recognizing a Palestinian state at the UN as long as Mahmood Abbas holds an election which it seems like he's agreeing to do so.

    Palestinians need good news and they need something to live for which will curb hamas impact. Many Palestinians feel hopeless right now which only helps hamas.
     
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  10. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    Literally NOBODY likes bibi in israel yet the right wingers in america @AroundTheWorld worship and ass lick him like he's the savior of israel. It's just sad how utterly stupid Americans are

    Bibi is to blame for October 7 just like hamas. They both need to go
     
    #6770 astros123, Jan 30, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2024
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  11. LosPollosHermanos

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    That guy and Eli David are racist genocidal pieces of ****. I have no idea why their opinions matter more than YouTube comments

    I’ll take Alex jones more seriously
     
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  12. LosPollosHermanos

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    The real time footage, IDF lies and body parts of children littered through Gaza beg to differ.

    it’s a genocide at this point and the majority of the world seems to agree

    by the way, nobody is denying Hamas terrorist scum need to die. It’s just that innocent lives in Gaza are thought expendable at an order of a 1000 to kill maybe 1 terrorist
     
  13. LosPollosHermanos

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  14. Amiga

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    Two wrongs don't make it less wrong.
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

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  16. LosPollosHermanos

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  17. LosPollosHermanos

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  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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    So? What does that matter? Where is Assyria for the Assyrians? What about all the other groups of people that lost wars a thousand years ago?

    The fact that Israel is small and surrounded by other nations that are Islamic doesn’t change any of the facts. There were already Palestinians there when Israel set up shop 75 years ago. They pushed most of them out of their homes and into what is the occupied zone, which Israel has ran as an apartheid regime for over 50 years.

    If someone came to me and said “Too bad, the Ottamon’s lost they area and the English claimed it and decided to give it to Israel. The occupied zone was taken in war and Israel can claim it and push out the Palestinians because they won the war”… I would respect it, that is most of human history- but that isn’t what I hear.
     
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  19. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    What exactly is the solution to the current conflict in your opinion? Do you think a 2 state solution is feasible? Do you think Palestinians would accept giving up large chunks of the West Bank to the Israelis?

    I havnt seen from your prospective what you see as the end game ?
     
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  20. Nook

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    I don’t see a remotely clean end game here. It is going to require the US government and allies essentially forcing a two state solution with some concessions like land in the West Bank going to Israel- possibly even Gaza as it is all but gone.

    The problem is how is that remotely politically viable. Would an administration just give up Israel as the strongest US ally in the Middle East? How would all the Israeli supporters in Congress and the Senate handle it?
    Also if it does become a two State situation there is certain to be instability in the Palestinian state because Iran and others will want it to fall.

    The easiest solution would be to just let Israel push the Palestinians until they are all dead - but the political fallout and international response would be insane and rightfully so.

    I think the solution is to find some degree of compromise where Israel is agreeable enough and then let governments in the Middle East deal with Palestine.

    This is not cut and dry like people say… I remember the Arab Spring and the simplicity that Obama saw it to be, when there were long term negative consequences most failed to consider.
     
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